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RE: I Should Be Dead
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by Peter84Jenkins on November 24, 2007
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I wrote this the way I did because I wanted to invoke a bit of my fear into someone who hasn’t been on the hospital bed with the vary real possibility of dieing from a hobby I choose to engage in every day. Lots of newcomers are told to look a snake bite photos before jumping in. Yeah pictures can be gross and awe inspiring but if my words could invoke even the slightest raise in heart rate and or a lump in your throat I think it hits closer to home. That’s why I made it into a story rather than a medical record. Thanks for the comments.
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by venominme on November 26, 2007
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It is quite stunning how some bites are so severe and have such immediate effects while others are so much less. Are we sure this is not some additional allergic reaction taking place with these “passing out” type bites? Is this what happens when you get it IV instead of SC? My single fang diamondback bite landed me in the hospital for four days and I turned black from my toes to my lower back, so I always assumed I had a fairly normal (half) envenomation. I thought I had it pretty bad at the time, but now I can see I think I got off easy. I don’t recall any sweats, lip tingling or any of that, and was quite normal except for the swelling and stinging sensation, which followed the swelling all the way up. After stories like this and Ray’s bite, I’m starting to think maybe I really didn’t get severely envenomated, something I would have never thought I’d say about it. Really important to share the story- thank you.
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by Chris_Harper on November 26, 2007
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In this case, he was bleeding from the gums within 45 minutes, an ominous sign. Additionally, I am aware of at least 6 other bites where the patient's blood pressure plummeted within 15 minutes of the bite, and only one of them was a venomous keeper. Since it is necessary to a previous exposure to have a true allergic reaction, the most likely scenario for these is a venom component which causes the blood to drop. There are other components that directly cause angioedema, (i.e.swelling of the tongue and airway etc.). In combination, these effects will look virtually identical to an allergic reaction. The treatment is quite different however.
CH
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by SCatheris on November 27, 2007
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I can only imagine the feeling that comes over you after you realize you just made that big of a mistake. That's a beautiful timber btw too bad shes not too friendly...
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by submariner on November 28, 2007
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how much was the hosp.bill and does most insurance co.cover this if they know you handel and keep snakes as a hobby
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by Phobos on November 29, 2007
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Peter:
Nicely told story. I have the following comments.
C. horridus is a very under-estimated venomous snake. It's venom is one of the most potient platelet aggregators known, as seen with your serious shortly after your bite. Sadly CroFab is not very active in neutralizing Horridus venom as other venoms of the covered species. Therefore much more is needed to counteract a typical bite.
Dr. Findley Russell, MD and I had a conversation about Fasciotomies. He said they were mostly a big money maker for the Hospitals and the surgeons, requiring months of skin grafts & wound treatments long after the bite has healed. Besides, who (what doctor)in their right mind cuts into a patient with severe coagulation issues and declining renal function. It's really asking for severe complications, far above the danger of the bite itself. They put $$ before their oath: "First, do no harm" goes right out the window.
Snakebites are bad enough, I know from experience having been chomped by a C. horridus myself but having to put up with ego driven, pompus MD's is an additional life threating situation to deal with when you need it least. I too experienced this type of physician, fortunately my sister is a nurse as got this jackass quickly removed from my case.
I would gladly have Chris Harper or any of the guys from Venom1 (Miami Dade) supervise my care. I'll take experience over "paper degrees" anyday. With this said, there are MD's & PharmD's that are specialists in this area and can run interference when contacted early on. These people are the leaders in the field and a blessing to have when you need the best.
What to do:
1)Have a copy of Dr. Richard Dart's (Director, Rocky Mountain PCC) medical publication on why Fasciotomies should not be done. Keep this with you emergency snakebite protocol book.(I have this is you want a copy)
2) Have someone who you trust and knows about snakebite treatment to be your advocate and advisor to your spouse/partner, if you cannot act in your own behalf. They should use your emergency book contact list to locate other resources and personel that can consult with the local physicians. Don't trust the local doctors with your life. I've seen too many local ER staff say they have A/V in stock for non-native snakebite treatment..hahahaha, yeah right! I usually politely tell them "pissing" on the bite will be about as effective as the wrong A/V and at least won't hurt the patient. No, I don't mince words when somebody's life is at risk. You have to take charge and be aggressive or you will pay the price both in physical harm and higher medical costs.
Good Luck,
Al Coritz
www.deadlybeautiful.com
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by RepFan on November 30, 2007
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Daniel,
Excellent article! Sorry you had to go through the whole ordeal, but thanks for sharing your story. We all can learn from this and have a more hardy respect for the charges we keep.
~Todd
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by SouthernWolf on December 2, 2007
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I appreciate your decision to share your story. I am not new to herps (been keeping herps as pets since '91) however I am new to keeping 'hots' so any information that I run across I try to remember it and also what let up to it.
In this case I am glad that you posted what you were doing at the time of the bite. Now the one thing that sticks in my head.... is ALWAYS use tools.
Thanks again for shareing.
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by FSB on December 25, 2007
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It's interesting to me that snake bites elicit so much more horror in the general populace than any other type of animal bite. I'm sure that, historically, this is due in part to the fact that even some very small snakes, especially certain elapids, are capable of delivering a bite that, while minimal in terms of any visible physical damage, can cause rapid death. This ability must have been particularly shocking to early peoples, resulting in snakes being viewed as having almost supernatural powers.
Of course, as we see from photos such as these, some snakes are certainly capable of causing massive and visible tissue damage and trauma around the bite.
However, I work at a vet clinic and regularly see the results of dog bites inflicted on other dogs, and the damage is regularly every bit as horrible and visible as what is depicted in these photos. We currently have a German shepherd here in the hospital that looks as if he had been skinned from just behind the head to his shoulders. Another dog, a very large female Rottweiller, was so badly mauled by one of her own adult pups that she died on the operating table. This dog was literally so covered in blood that you couldn't tell what color she was (white). I can easily imagine the damage that such teeth and jaws could inflict on human flesh, if so inclined, and treat the dogs here with as much respect as I do my rattlesnakes.
Often, when I begin a snake lecture with a very docile boid of some sort draped around my neck, I am asked "Why doesn't that thing bite you?" as if biting is an automatic and unavoidable behavior for snakes.
I usually respond by asking if the questioner owns a dog. "Does your dog normally bite you?" The answer being almost certainly "no," I then point out that all dogs are equipped with very sharp teeth and powerful jaws, and that any dog is CAPABLE of delivering a very serious bite, but most of them don't. The point is that just because an animal has the equipment to inflict a bite doesn't mean that it is inclined to, i.e., being well-armed doesn't necessarily imply malice. I believe that most snakes don't want to bite us, and would much rather avoid any confrontation with such a large and formidable adversary as a human.
The last thing a captive venomous snake wants to do is bite its keeper, whether the snake actually realizes this or not. In the big picture, such an act is likely to seal the snake's doom, since it is unlikely that anyone but the keeper is really going to care about the snake's welfare in such a situation, and most other (sane?) people will probably call for the "offending" snake's destruction (along with the rest of that unfortunate keeper's collection). It is our job to ensure, not just for our own sake, but for that of the snakes, that this does not happen. Do not take chances!
Yet, what amazes me is the horror that people, many keepers included, of being bitten even by a non-venomous snake. To me, this is just a non-event, except perhaps for large, long-toothed boids.
Non-venomous snakebites are by-and-large just so superficial and ineffective that I almost feel sorry for the snake and its puny efforts to defend itself. Next to a dog or cat bite (which ALWAYS become horribly infected), NV snake-bites are just nothing. I've had far worse from briars or household scrapes and cuts.
Perhaps this horror of ANY snakebite, venomous or non, comes from the fact that biting is really a snake's only available form of ACTIVE defense, that is to say, a form of defense that inflicts any damage, however minor, upon an assailant. With no limbs, they are incapable of clawing or scratching, and while many snakes resort to unique (and perhaps repulsive) defensive behaviors such as hiding, musking or playing dead, these are all PASSIVE forms of defense. (I am really unaware of constriction being used defensively, at least in a conscious way).
I am very interested in the phenomenon of ophidiophobia, which is always at the top of any list of human fears (just above public speaking). How many people are really going to encounter a seriously dangerous snake in their daily lives? To my mind, ophidiophobia is a major worldwide health problem in terms of the loss of productivity and quality of life that it imposes upon its sufferers, for no good reason. I have known people who are terrified of walking in the woods or going fishing becasue of snakes (while they think NOTHING of driving 200 miles on the interstate, a far more dangerous activity). We should all be doing our utmost to combat it. So much evil is caused by the ills that never happen.
Many "snake shows" capitalize on this supernatural fear, to the benefit of the showman's ego, who makes himself look as if he is performing some superhuman, death-defying feat by handling snakes. I am continually trying to undermine this approach with my own lectures, by demonstrating how even potentially dangerous snakes are not inclined to bite, and that most snakes are utterly harmless animals with bites less painful or damaging than that of an average parakeet (which can deliver a very painful pinch!). The snakes in my presentations are not refraining from biting me because I have some supernatural powers, or because I am preternaturally "brave" or daring (hell, I hate to fly!)... they are refraining from biting me because THEY DON'T WANT TO!
Best regards to all-
FSB
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by guttersnacks on January 8, 2008
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Peter,
Wow, I'm deeply moved by your story. It's altogether scary and amazing and heartwarming. If I take anything from you sharing your experience, it's the reality check for myself and getting my guard back up to 100% if by chance, over the last few years I've let it slip down even to 98%.
Thanks for sharing. I hope by now remnants of the bite are gone, excluding the physical scars of course. Thats a hell of a way to convince your wife you need a new recliner LOL.
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