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RE: Think Before You Speak
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by ilove_bradybarr on April 26, 2002
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Hi all,
I am glad somebody finally decided to write an article on this topic. I am a 14 year old girl, and I am serious about wanting to be a herpetologist. I visit websites to get advice from older, more experienced herpers.
However, I am sick of people assuming that because I am young, I want to impress friends or am going through a 'phase'. I do NOT like snakes to appear 'cool'. When I ask a question, I ask it because I want to know the answer, and I care about gaining the necessary knowledge before purchasing a snake. I do not want to be one of those idiots who gives snakes a bad name because they were foolish enough to buy a snake without knowing the first thing about it. Sure, I could go out and buy a hot snake, but that would not be fair on the snake, and I am responsible enough to wait until i can take full responsibility for my actions.
While I realise that answering similar questions over and over again can be tiring, please bear in mind that you must educate the new generation of herpetologists in order to protect the reputation of herpetologists, and more importantly, snakes in general. We don't appreciate being patronized, and I ask those here to remember that everyone is a novice at first.
I ask you all to help fight the 'A good snake is a dead snake' image, and educate both the public and amatuer herpetologists by answering 'stupid' questions.
Thank you for listening.
Amy.
crocodile_wild@hotmail.com
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Think Before You Speak
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by snakes04 on April 28, 2002
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This was a good article. I know alot of people that would like to own hots but they do not know too much about them. I have been herping for about ten years and I give everyone that asks me any kind of a question about snakes a very reasonable answer. I do not get sarcastic or rude. I have actually, by not being rude or sarcastic, turned some snake "haters" into people who just like snakes from a distance. At least they don't hate and kill a snake every time they see one. They respect the snakes now. These people have been told some bizzar answers in the past about snakes and that caused them to hate them. I try my best to educate everyone about snakes that shows any kind of enterest or hatred against them. Some people will not listen or they will keep coming back with very rude remarks about the information you are providing them with. Don't get rude or sarcastic back at them. It will only make things worse.
Have fun Herping,
Will
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RE: Think Before You Speak
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by JoeKaufmann on June 19, 2002
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Great article! I've seen too many condescending responses to beginner questions in this forum. Replies to the effect that "if you don't even know that, you're certainly not fit to keep a venomous snake" will only discourage a prospective snake buyer from asking questions that are important to have answered. If someone doesn't want to answer a "silly" question, it's better not to respond at all than to act elitist and condescending. I imagine saying "don't go buy a hot snake, because you're way too ignorant" will only make them buy the snake sooner.
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by serpentinespirit on July 7, 2002
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thank you for that great article, nothing worse than a haughty pompous pretentious c***sucker! I too am a novice hot keeper but have wrangled nons since about 8 or 10, then i knew all the domestic venomous so i could catch the nons by the process of deduction, now at 37 i've just begun to keep the hots, I read quite a bit from this and other websites on the topic and i know there are still plenty of questions that will arise from time to time and will need the experience coupled with the kindness of a fellow hot keeper...snakes to me are beautiful. no other animals exibit the variety of color, patterns of color, shapes and sizes, and range in level of potential danger (i say potential, the black mamba is not dangerous if you avoid it). we need this forum as a shelter from the asinine questions from those whove never even touched the baby garter snake brought to show-and-tell and proceed with verbal diarreah like "wut chew gawna dew with uh copperheed?"
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by Peb on September 10, 2002
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Thank you for an intelligent and timely article.
In the recent past I was flamed by several members of this happy little group because I said something about cottonmouths on my website that they didn't agree with. In checking my site statistics I find a lot of people lately are coming to my site by searching for "cottonmouth", so I've been anticipating another attack.
The guys who flamed me were rude, aggressive and threatening, but when offered the opportunity to educate they became very quiet. Believe me, this does not impress anyone with your point of view. If you are only willing to rant and rave but not educate, just what IS your point?
Its great that you have a place to discuss your interest in venomous snakes, just follow the advice to Think Before You Speak. Are you going to be proud of your words later? Are they advancing your cause or hurting it?
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by Annie on September 25, 2002
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Thankyou! Your opinions and outlook expressed in this article are a very welcome and refreshing change. In my life, i have encountered so many "high horse" attitudes from bufoons passing themselves off as experts on everthing. It's not just in this field, the "flaming" seems to be everywhere. Years ago, i tried to get into the skydiving hobby, but because of all the vulgar language and tempermental attitudes, i quit after my fourth jump. Too bad for the so called "jumpmaster" who lost out on any respect (and money) i had for him. I've had more than my fill of this same kind of elitism every time i go scuba diving. Thank God that there are still a few people like you out there who understand that asking a question is not necissarily a trademark of stupidity.
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by AspViperOphelia on October 6, 2002
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I'm a minor (most regretably...oh well) and an extreme beginner in this. Not being an adult, my intelligence and knowledge is often underestimated...still, I've had beginner questions. I keep two Western Hognoses (rear fanged venomous, but only mildly) and my elder, at approx. one year old, hasn't even reached sexual maturity. However, I'm most serious about this hobby, and, being absolutely enthralled by Monacle cobras, plan to purchase one when I can. Let me emphasize that it will be a venomoid.
Reaching my point, I'd like to thank you for putting up with "stupid" beginner questions. I've been fortunate enough to have some connections and my questions have been answered.
Best regards,
~Tara
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RE: Think Before You Speak
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by Craig23 on April 22, 2003
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I agree with all this. It helps beginers so much to be able to ask questions from experienced people. However one thing i dont like is when people ask questions that they really should already know from reading books etc. I know that when i first started out i had read tens of books for the love and interest of it. And learnt alot. If someone comes out with a question like "are pythons venomous" then they havent read alot and I find that a sign of no real interest. Some questions shouldnt need to be asked by people that are really intereted in herpetology. BUT, books dont tell all, and without experienced people giving advice i know for sure i wouldnt have half the knowledge i do now.
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by crotalisviridishelleri on May 30, 2003
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Well said!
I have run into many herpetologists over the years who seem to enjoy this flaming of beginner's in the herp world..Im sure that entymology and Ichthyology(is that how you spell it?) have their share of these irritable folks as well.
I have been accused of reading the "wrong books" as well as playing around with one-too-many ball pythons when I should've been paying attention to the kingsnake killing my rattlesnake..er,um..nevermind!
Seriously,though,I think our hobby would have a lot more people interested in seeing what we do and why than sitting there and badmouthing us for being the so-called freaks we are.We are interested in nature and science and nothing more.
Asking questions and reading as many books as we can is how we learn and dispel the myths and fears associated with snakes.We can thanks many folks such as Bill Haast,Ross Allen,C.B.Perkins and Laurence Klauber who devoted a good portion of their lives to the study of these fascinating creatures.
It is our responsibility now in the 21st century to carry-on this tradition and improve on what the 20th century left-off at.Seek knowledge.And let's not turn away potential budding herpetologists!
Thanks,
Juan
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Resources and Links
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by txhiker on July 23, 2003
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I agree with you about trolls and flamers coming out of the woodworks to sap the energy of good hearted people. I like to call them social vampires.
The way that I suggest you get out of this viscious circle without giving power to these people is to refer them to resources. If they are serious then guidance is all they need. They don't need answers, they don't need to be taught over the internet, they need guidance.
Resources I am referring to is giving out the name and address of the local herp organization. If the person won't post back with their city or location, then they aren't serious. You can also indirectly ask by asking if they can attend a herp meeting in your state. They will almost always post back with what state they live in as the reason why it would be hard for them to attend your meeting. If they won't follow the line of conversation, then don't give them the time of day. With trolls and flamers, always answer a question with a question.
Also, serious book titles and also names of well-known snake handlers and their localities would be good. These "silly" questioners can go in person to the exhibits or offices where these people display their wares. The professional can size them up on the spot and determine for one if they are adults or children. Children shouldn't be getting guidance from strangers. Parents should take enough interest to guide their own kids to a professional. If they are going to allow a child to have a snake, then they should be concerned enough to pay attention to monitoring their kids activities. The fact that a person makes a trip to see a professional is in itself enough to determine that the person is serious about acquiring a venomous snake. I definately feel that the liability of accidently giving out information to someone under age is too great a risk. Silly questions are frequently asked by children, many times in other countries not even on this continent. Bored children and people are frequently trolls also who are easy to expose. Just be professional.
My policy is to respond privately to the person to determine their age. You can safely assume that silly questions come from three sectors. 1. Children with no research skills 2. adults who don't read books or attend organizational meetings and 3. trolls. The first one needs guidance in general, not answers. The second needs to have their memories jogged about the existance of libraries and local professionals. Even the titles of books would be more helpful in case the person is in a rural area but can order books online. Don't embarass them publically by assuming they are a child because it may be an adult. Adults forget that their are children with free access to the internet. (Now that is scarey!)
One can easily send a tactful email to determine who you are dealing with if you prefer. Geographic questions can't usually be answered by people who don't have drivers licenses.
Kids are best directed to their local Herp society where they will have to be driven by an adult. Most people under the age of 18 do not have the college level research skills or the professional life experience from outside employment to know about Herp Societies or other organizations. Their parents may be uninvolved and they just need this little kick start to know what questions to ask their parents, such as "take me to the Herp meeting please."
If you are truly suspicious of someone and feel they are just a troll, email them privately. When you take away their podium, it pretty much eliminates their medium for ego boosting.
I hope this helps. Don't deprive the rest of us sponges of your knowledge because of a few bad apples. Thanks for your honesty and expressing your feelings on this topic.
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