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Bitten By the Big One II
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Anonymous post on January 19, 2002
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I don't know as its fair to say that the Hospital is at fualt for the loss of use in his hand. Afterall, they didn't make him pick the snake up in the first place.............
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RE: Bitten By the Big One II
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by EricD on January 22, 2002
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If the hospital does not know what the heck they are doing as hospital #2 obviously did not they have the responsibilty to do what they can to find someone who does. They did not. They also have the responsibility to be truthfull. They were not. And if you don't get an itemized bill there is something they are hideing. Our local hospital is audited by a known insurance co. and are known to double charge $600,000. every year for small items. When I asked for my itemized bill a couple of years ago I found nurmerous things (some rather expensive) I was charged for that I did not recive and other things I specificly said I did not want but were given anyhow. They also had me sign papers for things I did not want after they gave me enough morphine to kill a horse. Sure it was not them who told him to pick up the snake but thats not really the question. The question is wether or not they were competent in his treatment. They were not...Not anonyomous....Eric Dolan
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Bitten By the Big One II
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by Clibond on January 31, 2002
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Excellent article im glad to see that all worked out for the better. I would like to ask permission of the author to use some of his photos in a speech about the proper way to avoid/handle a snakebite please respond as soon as you can
Cliff
Taipan330300@aol.com
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Bitten By the Big One II
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by fearfulmom on June 8, 2002
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I can relate to your snakebite story in that my daughter was bitten by and unknown type of snake in the summer of 2000. Fortunately Our situation did not get as serious as yours but we got some pretty incompetent treatment from the hospital we took her to. We live half way between Dallas & Houston, TX which is also a ranching area where you would assume hospitals had seen many snake bites. My husband and I assume she stepped on either a copperhead or a water moccasin because it was dark outside when it happened. She was 12 years old at the time and returning to the front of the house from the swimming pool in the back yard. She thought she had stepped on a water hose until she lifted her foot and felt a sting. Luckily, only one fang slightly broke the skin on her big toe and we suppose the snake could have recently fed and she didn't get as much of the venom as she could have or it would have been much worse. We rushed her to the nearest hospital which is normally 45 minutes away. When we got her to the hospital, they put ice on the wound, took a blood sample, and eventually gave her 2 Benadryl. Wow, I didn't know Benadryl was the treatment for a possibly venomous snakebite. Did you? At this point I was about to freak-out because her whole foot was turning purple and then black. The swelling was moving up her foot and into her ankle and leg but nobody was doing anything! About four hours after we got there they gave us the blood test results verbally saying there was no venom in her blood and we should just take her home and see our family doctor in the morning. This is my child they were so unconcerned about and her foot and leg were constantly swelling and turning black further up her leg. Dummies that we were, and not knowing how much worse it might get, we took her home. The next morning when we took her to our family doctor she had a fit. She said from the looks of her leg the bite was definitely from a venomous snake and we were really lucky it hadn't gotten a better hit on her toe. The foot and leg was twice its normal size half way up her calf and mostly black. She gave her steroids and antibiotics. Two years later she still has no feeling in that big toe but we are thankful it wasn't worse. To top it all off, the medical insurance company we had at the time called me for a detailed description of what happened and wanted to know why we thought they should pay for treatment of a non-venomous snakebite. (The hospital had turned it in as non-venomous.) Are these insurance people total idiots or what? Whether its venomous or not, do they really think your not suppose to take your child to the emergency room (and expect them to help pay) if they get snakebit? Needless to say the insurance didn't pay one cent on the hospital bill even after I told them the condition of her leg after the bite. We were charged over $600 for a blood test and 2 Benadryl.
My final word on this is that each of us needs to know what treatment is needed for a snakebite if we live where we know there are snakes. We cannot rely on hospitals or doctors to always know what they should!
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RE: Bitten By the Big One II
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by bear44857 on June 14, 2002
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To the anonymous one:
Maybe you were one of the hospital workers involved in this incident and just want to try to avoid a lawsuit. If I was the man who recieved treatment from the first two hospitals I would have sued you for a lot of money. This man could have died at the hands of those incompetent doctors. It is by only pure luck that he didnt. Luckily for me where I live we have very very few snakes. We however do have two poisonous snakes although very rarely seen. I just hope to god if one of my family ever gets bitten by a snake or a spider (we have two poisonous spiders here too) that we do not come across such blatant incomptency at our hospitals as this poor man did. And may I ask why the heck was he given a Anti-Venom for a Black Widow when it was a snake bite? My advice to the man and his wife is to find a very very good lawyer and force that hospital to turn over the records in a multi-million dollar lawsuit. That is what I would do.My heart goes out to his wife for the anguish she recieved at the hands of the hospitals. I am so sorry that you two had to go through that.You should also write to Congress and Lobby to get a Snake Bite protocol established in all hospitals as poisonous snakes are found almost every where. It is scary to me that one of my kids could be bitten and get this treatment. Thanks for sharing your story with us.
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by JoeKaufmann on June 20, 2002
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To anonymous: hospital patients are treated for a lot of things that they have somehow inflicted on themselves, but that doesn't relieve doctors of the responsibility to administer proper treatment.
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by badgertx on July 13, 2002
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To the concerned mom, I'm sorry I have not posted sooner. The bite your daughter received is indeed a venomous bite. The swelling and coloration you described is certainly indications to it. First, why they put ice on her foot has me baffled, that is a very old and forbidden practice, two, benadryl will not combat a snake bite. It might aid in some of the swelling, but not the destructive capabilities of the venom. The fact that she was not tested for antivenin also disturbs me. Every thing you said about her care could have gotten her killed, if the bite were more sever. I can't even believe they let her go home. She could have gone into shock and died. For future questions about this, contact poison control, and try to get a venomous bite protocol packet to take with you. I will say this, if she had not been envenomated, there would have been little to no swelling and abnormal discoloration. I hope she is doing well, and considering the circumstances, she is quite lucky. Best regards Badger.
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by BwViper on October 1, 2002
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I took a fairly bad hit from a Canebrake Rattlesnake and the first hospital was also very STUPID and didn't know squat about what they were doing.
I had got tagged by a S. Copperhead about a month or so before the Canebrake got me and the Copperhead bite hurt like you know what. But the Canebrake on the other hand didn't hurt at all. I had no local pain or swelling, so I thought it was a dry bite. Man was I wrong. After I got tagged I went in the house and sit down at my computer and started looking at ads for snakes. As I was sitting there, about 15 minutes after the bite, I started feeling my lips going numb and my chest was starting to hurt. At this point I still didn't have any local pain, swelling or discoloration. Then I started having a hard time breathingand my chest was getting very tight. By this time I was on the phone with poison control and getting ready to go to the hospital. On the way to the hospital, about 30 minutes after the bite, I started going into shock while I was on the phone with poison control. By the time I got to the hospiat I was unable to talk, my chest was hurting severly and my head was killing me. When I went into the hospital my mom told them what I had been bit by and approx. how long it had been. What did they do? They sat me in the waiting room for 15 minutes until I finally passed out. They put me in a wheelchair and rolled me to the back where I woke up. The doctor that was there at the time had never treated a snakebite victim and was clueless as to what was going on. First he wanted to put ice on it, because it was starting to swell a little, needless to say, I mumbled to him, NO!! At this time I couldn't feel the finger I got bit on at all. They finally air lifted my to another hospital after an hour or so. Now I have to say, when I got to the second hospital, the doctor there had treated many snakebite victims, including victims of Monocled Cobras, Gaboons, Coppers, many different types of rattlers and other types of snakes. He actually knew what he was doing and had me stabilized within approx. 2 hours. I don't remember everything that happened at the first hospital, but at the time I did. I told him what they did and he said it was a good thing I was transfered out of the first hospital and that they could have cost me my life by not knowing what they were doing.
My bite was no where near as severe as yours (Bret), but it was as close as I ever hope to come to dying.
I think that all hospitals should know how to handle situations such as snakebites and spider bites, PROPERLY.
From my experiences and and your testimonial I have learned alot of do's and dont's. When dealing with these awsome animals you have no room for mistakes or carelessness. If you are a venomous keeper, don't be careless just because you think, well the hospital has antivenon so if I get tagged they will take care of me, you are VERY wrong. Most hospitals know about as much as my 4 year old daughter about snake bite protocol. Accidents happen, but most can be avoided by just simply following the rules and don't get to over confident, like I was.
I hate that it happened to you Bret, but your articles were great and I learned alot from them. Take care and be careful. Bobby
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Bitten By the Big One II
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by rumruner on October 28, 2002
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Now it is time for me to play the unpopular voice. I agree that the first two hospitals treated him wrongly, but the doctors aren't necessarily to blame. It is ridiculous to think that doctors remember everything that they learned in medical school. I have two friends in different phases of med school right now, and both of them said they recieved a one day lecture about snake bite, mostly related to allergies to antivenom. Doctors have to learn so much that they cannot possibly retain it all. How many of you remember everything that you learned your sophmore year in high school, I know that I don't.
Snake bite is statistically such a rare occurance here that most doctors will go their whole career and never see one, and if they do, they usually send it to a specialist if they can.
When I was clerking at a law firm during law school, I worked on a med mal case dealing with a snake bite victim who lost a limb due to what he termed doctor negligence. The records of the case are sealed, but the gist is that the court and jury found that it was wholly unreasonable for a doctor in Texas to know the exact protocol to treat and exotic snake (I realize C. Atrox is not exotic to Texas). However, the point is the same, the patient as a duty to help themselves and make sure they know what to do and that those around them know what to do.
When I was envenomated a fews years ago, the only reason I even lived was because the person I was traveling with knew exactly what to do and exactly what to tell the doctors. Admittedly my situation was different because I was in Africa and was traveling with a fully trained vet and herper who has been working with Cobras his whole life, but the fact that he was not allow me to be a passive patient saved my life.
I know this is a long post, but it is easy to demonize others for mistakes we make ourselves.
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The lesson we can learn from Bret
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by Thunderbird on February 25, 2003
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I've never kept a venomous snake, nor do I plan to, and it has been years since I've come across one in the wild, but reading this story I remember a lesson learned from an experienced zoo herpetologist before we headed out to look for Timber Rattlesnakes when I was a teenager. The fundamental point, which Bret's case makes clearly, is that most venomous snakebites are treatable, although extremely painful. However, prompt, correct medical treatment including the use of the correct antivenin for the species of snake which inflicted the bite is the key to minimizing the long term damage and ensuring a prompt recovery. To this end, anyone handling venomous snakes should prepare and have easily accessible a checklist detailing the emergency procedures to be followed in the event of a venomous bite. This checklist should include a list of local hospitals which are experienced in treating venomous bites, as well as the location and contact numbers for the nearest antivenin storage facility. The man who taught me this knew what he was talking about. He suffered a wet bite from a huge western diamondback (I believe in the range of 7 feet) while cleaning the snake's cage, and through proper, prompt treatment, suffered no long term health effects. He spent two weeks in the hospital, and claimed it was the most painful experience of his life, but I think the outcome speaks for itself. Whenever we came in contact with Rattlesnakes or other venomous snakes, we knew where to go if a bite occured, how long it would take to arrive, and what the doctors should and should not do when we got there. I believe in the age of the cell phones, stories like Bret's will become even less common, as emergency services can be arranged while the victim is en route to get treatment. Hopefully, Bret's story will help make such preparation standard practice among professional herpetologists and the hobbyist alike. Good luck Bret, and thanks for your story.
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