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conservation
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by bush_viper17 on November 2, 2004
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Hi everyone, What are your outlooks on conservation. I was talking to a biologist and he was telling me that its ok to kill animals. He said that its survival and that if they die out then they werent meant to be here. I dont agree with that. I think humans have done enough damage as it is. We argued for hours.
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RE: conservation
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by bush_viper17 on November 2, 2004
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I tried to reason with him and I said:what about the people that kill them for no reason by the hundreds and he replied:other animals do that everyday in the wild.
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by Phobos on November 2, 2004
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Jeremy:
Mans intervention in the environment causes damages we just are begining to understand. I do a lot of driving and the amount of road kill is see is mind boggling. The barriers they erect in the middle of the highway act a killing zones trapping the animal and leaving no escape. The size of loss to the species gene pool is another nail in their coffin. A receint news report said that populations of amphibians have dropped 23% over the last decade. A real loss to that part of the food chain.
With what man is doing to the environment without going out and purposly killing animals, any biologist should not be saying it's okay to go out and kill anything.
This includes US...herpers too. We should not be going out and collecting any animals from the wild. There are enough captive bred animals out there to buy to keep in collections. Just my opinion..
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RE: conservation
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Anonymous post on November 2, 2004
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I am inclined to agree with Al. Herpers have no need to cleanse habitats of inhabitants. Many of the animals a hobbyist could be interested in are being bred in numbers by other hobbyists. What reason does anyone have for taking a horridus from the wild? An adamanteus or contortrix? Are these animals not being produced by the zillions every spring by dedicated herpers? Why go out and catch them? There is no need. Give your hard earned money to the guys that breed them. They deserve it. Unless one is seeking genetic diversity for their breeding colony, the captive bred option is much better. Much better. Every animal YOU take is one more job that needs to be filled by mother nature.
Go out to the wildness. Take nothing but photographs. Leave nothing but footprints.
-The Phantom
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RE: conservation
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by bush_viper17 on November 3, 2004
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I agree also. I have taken alot of animals from the wild, but Ive been thinking alot about that and I will stop. Because who am I to tell people that its bad to harm wildlife when I go out and take them myself. It is hard to resist when you see something that youve been looking for for a long time and you have the urge to take it. If we leave it there then we wont have to take any because they will always be there for us to see any time we want. I was asking him about people killing rattlesnakes by the thousands every year at roundups all over the country and he again said that that is O.K. I dont agree at all because even if other animals do it, humans have the knowledge to work with the animals and share space with them. We have the knowledge to over come fears like that,Just like the alligators in there range. People move there knowing for a fact that alligators live there and when they see one they are surprized and kill it.
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by Joy on November 4, 2004
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Conservation is everyone’s responsibility. It sounds like you ran into one of those individuals that feel they have “dominion” over nature. Now this is my one and only cherished prejudice. I automatically assume these individuals also feel it is their right to beat their wives and/or kids.
However, I do tend to be sympathetic to some hunters. Living in WV, I see deer constantly. They are road killed daily, and without some hunting, their populations grow out of control and sicken. We have killed off their natural predators. Now hunting them is actually an option.
But this certainly doesn’t apply to reptiles or amphibians. I have never seen a natural population explosion. The only places with population explosions of reptiles or amphibians that I know of are the cane toad in Australia and the brown tree snake in Guam. And these were introduced species without any natural predators. In these cases, hell yes, wipe out the invading species before they destroy the ecosystem. We are responsible for their introduction in the first place.
As far as taking animals from the wild, I think we have all done that at some time, before we understood the consequences. I was about 7 or 8 when I caught a nightmarish hoard of red spotted newts and kept them secreted away in Tupperware containers until they all died. You know, I still feel bad about that! And I never did it again.
Please, support the breeders and hobbyists. If you haven’t been to a reptile show or expo, it really is a must! It is worth the drive just to save money on supplies. And it is a wonderful opportunity to meet others with similar interests. It is possible to buy almost anything captive bred, and for “normal” animals, the prices are very reasonable. And just think, these animals tend to be healthy and a reputable breeder will give you information and maybe even some support after you purchase. If you know you are going to a show, check out the expected exhibitors on line. Contact them. Most of them would be delighted to make sure they bring anything you are interested in with them to the show. And as a side note, lots of shows are “non venomous,” but some breeders do work with both venomous and non venomous. It doesn’t hurt to ask them if they could manage a transaction away from the show if they are going to be in the area anyhow. I am not so sure about shipping venomous, but I have had non venomous shipped with now problems!
Joy
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by bush_viper17 on November 4, 2004
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Thats what I wanted to hear. I was starting to think that Im the only one for conservation. I have another question on opinions, Last night my friends friend caught nineteen stinkpot turtles. He said that the people that owned the property (Golf course) sprayed chemicals everywhere and that all of the turtles came out of the water and were trying to get away. Well I didnt know what to do because they dropped the turtles off at my house last night and then left. The golf course wouldnt be an option for letting them go because of the pollution now so I released them in front of my house in a spring. I see a few snapping turtles there and amphibians. Theres not too many turtles there because this is basically a man made stream. I came back out this morning and I saw a few there. The spring runs a fairly long way and I released them at different intervals.
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by Snakeman1982 on November 5, 2004
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I don't know who you talked to who said they were a biologist, but they obviously haven't taken many classes in ecology or read any books on biodiversity and conservation. When you get to college, try to enroll in an environmental problems class. That will depress the crap out of you. Sadly that if a view that many have but it shouldn't come from a "real" biologist. Although my generation and the next appear to be a little more sensitive and conservation minded, I believe that are a little to hung up on fast cars, video games, and other junk to care much about the environment. The task of preserving the native wildlife is pretty much impossible but we have to try.
There are some really good books out there that will certainly help you find some good evidence for your side of conservation. Read some of Whit Gibbons works. He has three good books out "Keeping all the Pieces", "Ecoviews", and "Their Blood Runs Cold". E.O. Wilson of course is a good naturalist writer and even won a pulitzer I believe for his work. And David Quammen has "The Song of the Dodo", which many grad students are reading nowadays. I haven't read Quammen's book but it is suppose to be really good. There are tons of other books out there as well. At the very least, start talking to better biologists.
later,
Robert
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by Snakeman1982 on November 5, 2004
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Joy,
You may know this or forgot to mention it.
There are other introduction species that have created a lot of havoc to wild populations closer to home. The bullfrog has caused great damage to amphibian populations in both the western United States and Europe.
The Cuban treefrog is killing native treefrogs in Florida at an alarming rate.
But those are the main ones I know of that are causing "large" problems. Florida certainly has a lot of introduced species though.
Robert
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by Joy on November 5, 2004
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Actually, I didn’t know those cases specifically. Thanks for the info! I did realize Florida was having problems with pets released into the wild, but I didn’t know how hard it was impacting the native species. And I have actually seen creeks here in WV with convict ciclids (sp?) living in them.
Conservation should be everyone’s concern. bush_viper17, go to school, get a degree, and take that jerk’s job!
Joy
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