1-10 of 10 messages
|
Page 1 of 1
|
Poachin
|
Reply
|
by surucucu on November 9, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
the Endangered thread got a little long so let's try this. If someone were to take a trip to New Mexico and unlawfully collect NM ridgnoses and then return to thier home state, could they legaly keep, breed, and sell the offspring as long as they didn't do it in New Mexico. I mean do these people actualy have to be caught in the act? if so, is the Aruba Island the only rattlesnake that you can get into trouble owning without a permit? (forgoing individual state permits) I appreciate all of your comments, but please, if you are not sure, don't respond as if you are. thanks Chris
|
|
RE: Poachin
|
Reply
|
by JRHarrison on November 9, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
It would be up to the keeper to provide legal papers to state origin of the snakes.
Lacy Act is a federal law and effects transportation of illegally collected animals across statelines. This is a felony.
When people ask a question like yours. It puts up a red flag that someone is thinking of poaching and just wants to know if they might be able to get around the law.
Poaching is illegal and the offspring of poached animals are illegal.
Buy captive-born animals with all the legal paperwork to prove origin. Poaching busts make the news and give a blackeye to those keepers who follow the rules.
Jim Harrison
|
|
RE: Poachin
|
Reply
|
by surucucu on November 9, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
ya see, the problem is, I've been actively in this hobby for 22 years. yet seemingly without fail, everytime I dare to venture a question on here, someone always pre-judges and begins to preach. The saddest part is, it's usualy some cocky kid who probably won't even be interested in these things in a few years. I realize, Jim that you are not one of those cocky kids, and I do understand your concern, but you can't expect people who don't know as much as you to come on here and ask questions if all they get in response are accusations. Chris
|
|
RE: Poachin
|
Reply
|
by tj on November 9, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"When people ask a question like yours. It puts up a red flag that someone is thinking of poaching and just wants to know if they might be able to get around the law.
Poaching is illegal and the offspring of poached animals are illegal".
It does put up a red flag. However, I wouldn't worry too much simply because, a) The person looking for one, if they don't know the laws about a rare snake to begin with, don't have a snowballs chance of finding one and b) would simply get caught. There was a gentleman who killed an eastern massasauga in Canada not too long ago. He was found, charged,found guilty and faces a ridiculous amount of fines and possibly jail time. This was MONTHS after it happened. So if a person thinks they can get away with poaching a rare snake, you may want to think again. More than likely, you will get caught. As far as the question what is endangered goes....I personally think all are, regardless of what their states' government has their "status" as.
|
|
For Chris.
|
Reply
|
by MattHarris on November 9, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I don't think Jim was trying to make accusations, simply stating that UNLESS you have the paperwork as proof of where ANY protected animal came from, legally, any Fish&Game department, could confiscate the animal and levy a hefty fine on you.
Just because you bought a cb offspring from dealer So-and-so, who had 'legal' animals, without receipts, and /or copies of their permits OR AT THE LEAST, saw the papertrail that they had proving the animals were legal, does not mean that you could not be cited for illegally possessing the animals. Does it seem like a lot of unnecessary red-tape??? Only to those who want to circumvent it, and are concerned only in the "coolness" of having rare animals and not in the real need to conserve the wild populations.
The recent postings of "Legal" Aruba rattlesnakes, would make me want to see the entire CITES permits, 3-177 forms, USDI permits, and so on. Most dealers SHOULD give you a receipt (If they are legit dealers(reporting all their income). Otherwise, I would want to get a copy of their permits(USDI, state,etc) and any cancelled 3-177 forms if the animals were imported.
Another example would be USDI Permits for Crocodilian species (morelet's, cubans, etc.): virtually IMPOSSIBLE to get.
So, what JIm was basically saying is...if it even looks suspicious, stay away from it. If it seems risky, don't even think about it. It's not worth the fines, and money. Otherwise, animals like the Aruba rattlesnakes for sale, wouldn't be "PA SALES ONLY!" Thats not to say they aren't legal, BUT they may have legally been purchased from a zoo in PA, kept in PA but can't leave PA.
|
|
RE: Poaching
|
Reply
|
by Buzztail1 on November 9, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Just a reminder for those interested:
Several Fish and Game / Department of Natural Resources officers routinely peruse our forums looking for anything which might seem "off-color".
That does not mean that I am accusing anyone of anything. I am merely reminding everyone that this is a public forum and is open to Law Enforcement review.
Several people have come onto this site in previous forum topics and admitted or boasted of breaking the law, keeping illegally, recommended ways to circumvent the law, etc. Then people get up in arms yelling about enticement and such things.
That said, there is nothing wrong with trying to find out if there is a legal way to get restricted animals or to find out if some animals are indeed restricted. Just be aware that such questions may draw some unusually interested L/E officers.
For instance, it has been reported that one well-known keeper in Texas was raided on the basis of emails found on another person's confiscated computer and his computer and apparently some of his snakes were confiscated. Now the facts of this case have yet to be presented but the implications should be obvious. Anything you say in public (online!!!) can and will be used against you.
R/
Karl H. Betz
|
|
RE: Poachin
|
Reply
|
by tj on November 10, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
thenewdisciple, I have no idea how he was caught, I didn't get any specifics. The only thing I know is that he was caught months afterward. Some of the investigators can be very good and very crafty. Someone is always watching, whether it be in here or out in the field. I would never chance taking a specimen out of the wild, hell, I wouldn't take one out of the wild if it was legal.
|
|
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to this topic.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Check our help page for help using
, or send questions, comments, or suggestions to the
Manager.
|