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Venomoid Practice
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by youngherper03 on November 19, 2004
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Should the reputation or skills of a reptile dealer, keeper, etc. be degraded beacuse people are against the practice of devenomation? What are your thoughts?
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RE: Venomoid Practice
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Anonymous post on November 20, 2004
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No they should not,there are people who do educational shows for children with their venomoids.I've seen some sorry keepers out there who claim to love their reptiles and their husbandry was pitifull,and yet they stand back and complain about people keeping venomoids.If everyone wants something to complain about why not attack the importers and wholesalers who collect thousands of wildcaught specimens,cram them into tiny mite infested enclosers filled with their own bodily fluids,and water that hasn't been changed in weeks.this is an issue that should be addressed,not keepers of venomoids.
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RE: Venomoid Practice
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by cottonmouth on November 20, 2004
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I would agree with that until I purchased a venomiod. It lived about 6 months and then died for no aparent reason. I had it sent off to Va Tech for a buddy to look at and he had an answer for me in a couple days. It had a partailly digested toad in it's stomack due to lack of digestive ability. They need thier venom in at least 1 in every 5 kills for proper digestive maintenance. Some live quite a while and others parish quickly depending on thier eating habbits.
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RE: Venomoid Practice
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by Chance on November 21, 2004
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Hmm, I don't want to start a flame war, but are you sure the king died from not being able to digest the toad, or because you fed it a toad in the first place? Kings eat snakes in the wild, sometimes monitors and other small reptiles as well. Usually that's what their diet solely consists of. Most toads have poison glands located on either side of the head that produces a very noxious substance when they are irritated. Some snakes, such as hognoses, can deal with this poison effectively because they have evolved to eat them. Others, like black snakes in Australia, are declining in numbers because of the introduction of the cane toad, which has proven toxic to them. My hypothesis is that your king probably died because of the poison the toad secreted when it ate it.
I in no way support venomoids or their makers, however I have kept a rescue venomoid kaouthia for nearly a year of rehabbing before moving her to a new home, and know people who have kept other venomoids for much, much longer than that, and their snakes are fine. Venom to a venomous snake is not absolutely necessary for survival, but rather has probably co-evolved as mostly a method of procuring prey with the slighter addition of an aid to digestion in some species. I rather doubt that the most neurotoxic snakes, such as mambas and some Aussie elapids, have much digestive benefit from their venoms, as it doesn't serve to break down cells like the venom of a gaboon viper or western diamondback would. Anyway, these are all just hypotheses and theories of mine, but I'm pretty firmly convinced that because of the numerous venomoids out there today, it's pretty obvious that these snakes are digesting their meals just fine.
In the future, you may want to be careful about what you feed your snake. I would stick to natural prey items or rodents if they'll take them. That might help avoid such a nasty surprise.
-Chance
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RE: Venomoid Practice
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by cottonmouth on November 21, 2004
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I don't think anywhere in my post did I say it was a king. It was actually an Egyptain and it's diet consists of mostly toads, but thanks for the input.
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RE: Venomoid Practice
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by Chance on November 21, 2004
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Hmm, well I do apologize then. Somehow I read that it was a king you were speaking of, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Regardless, even if its natural diet included toads found in Africa, that still doesn't mean that it could safely eat toads found here. I'm just assuming here that you didn't import some African toads to feed it. Toad toxins, like snake venoms, can of course vary greatly between species and certainly between continents. I still maintain that snake venom, especially in elapids and most especially in highly neurotoxic species, is not absolutely necessary for proper digestion and metabolism.
-Chance
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RE: Venomoid Practice
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by tj on November 22, 2004
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It's someone's personal choice. I don't buy from anyone who sells venomoids, but that's just me. I only
have a handful of people I will actually buy from, and none would even think about selling venomoids. Most of these people also have other jobs and don't do it as a way make a quick buck, either. So it makes dealing with them a pleasure.
I would also pay the extra $50 bucks for a cb snake as well, but that's also just my choice.
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