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RE: Alabama Reporter Fixes the story
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by MoccasinMan on June 19, 2005
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Phobus you are correct. It is the same bill that has been making the rounds state by state. Both groups are making compromises to further their interests. They have decided that only the academic elite should work with these animals. It is sad that some that have come up through our ranks, and have secured their positions, now advocate the same elitist position. It is an unveiled effort to end private ownership of many of our beloved creatures. Do you think they would have fought these same people before they became one of them? You know who I am talking about.
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RE: Alabama Reporter Fixes the story
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by MoccasinMan on June 19, 2005
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I am sure that on a zoo by zoo basis there are many differing veiws; some pro some con. AZA at a national level is against any but their organizations working with these animals.
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RE: Alabama Reporter Fixes the story
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by AquaHerp on June 19, 2005
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To anyone who even remotely buys into this dribble that AZA has any ties with PETA or any Animal Rights group, please use some of common sense here. PETA? The group opposed to even keeping companion animals? The group attacking zoos, aquariums and every other animal-oriented facility all over the nation has now formed an alliance with AZA? You would have to be an idiot to believe this crap.
I have been watching this whole argument on the forum over the past week or so and have been biting my tongue, mainly because of this type of thing, idiocy. Yes my friends this is indeed a good idea and a smooth move for the hobby....let's attack zoos and other professionals and rant and rave and look like fools. Let's isolate ourselves and make enemies of everyone else out there. Hmmmm.....good idea. I for one am an AZA professional who believes very much in the right to keep herps privately and have appeared many times to make the case for private ownership of exotics. But the more I read and the more I witness, the more I have to wonder about the stability of the many of the hobbyist out there. All this energy, and all most can do is use it to bitch and whine. Nobody has a solution to the problems, just a problem with the solutions.
When the issues of laws, ordinances, bans, and so forth come up within various jurisdictions the City councils usually consult different professionals, and usually zoo personnel are among those. So when we sit here and have an evening of reading how bad we suck, how arrogant we are, how we don't know anything, how we want to hoard all the herps for ourselves, how we don't know how to breed, how we are in bed with animal rights groups, and the list goes on.....I wonder what frame of mind that puts myself and others in when we get that phone call. Hmmmmmm
Don't bother flaming me, as I'm not going to fight with you. Fighting on the forums is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded. I'm not going to waste my time going at it, like the 8 page thread that's going on that started over an "anonymous" post that nobody had ever bother to authenticate, just jump on. Kind of sad really.
AZA and Peta...LOL really. C'mon people, if you were any more dense, light would bend around you. Use some common sense, that's all I'm asking here.
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RE: Alabama Reporter Fixes the story
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by MoccasinMan on June 19, 2005
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I don't engage in drivel. I don't make unfounded accusations or disparaging remarks. I would recomend checking the facts of the situation before making blanket statements and letting emotion get the better of you. I don't blame you one bit for being upset. I was quite upset when I found out who and why my right to life liberty and happiness was being threatened. Maybe the actions in NC are an aberration within AZA. It does not relieve them of responsability for their members actions. I stand by everything I have stated. I have proven and documented these facts to the senate sub-committee that was considering this bill. They dropped it from the current legislative agenda because they felt misled by the NC Zoo, and there is now a lack of interest and funding for a study of this bill in the future. The bill has been resubmitted for study, but has not been allocated funds in the budget. Me and my organization have been put on the senate panel to advise the senate committe on the scope and direction of any future legislation.
Most of the top experts in the state (outside of the zoo) are with me and are well aware of the situation here. Dean and Roark will attest to the facts of the situation. If you are in a position to do something please do. What has been going on with the Zoo is beyond belief.
Andrew
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RE: Alabama Reporter Fixes the story
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by AquaHerp on June 19, 2005
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I can tell you may be a little new at this so let me offer some advice. Take it for what it's worth, and it is in no way meant to be condescending.
I have served on countless committees over the years that have done battle with AR groups not just over exotic animal ownership but over wildlife laws in general. I know the drill all to well. And I know how things are submitted, resubmitted and so on. Simply because a bill, or piece of legislation is supported by any group, including a zoo, as well as an AR group, does not mean that they are in bed with each other. Nor does it mean that they wrote the bill together, nor does it mean that they had anything to do with the initial document outside of the overall premise.
If the folks at NC Zoo wish to take that stance, that is their prerogative as through their director and has absolutely nothing to do with the AZA anyway. Zoos basically run through their director and the AZA does not "Big Brother" each institution to death, they are free to make their own choices. There are no black helicopters, no men in black suits, no conspiracy at all. Just their own stance as a zoo in their area as they see fit, period.
However, as someone like yourself who is president of this group, it may be wise to "carefully" plan your battles with NC Zoo and NC Zoo only. But to make such a bold statement and to run off at the mouth and drag everyone into the fray is rather unwise don't you think? I mean as president of this organization I would assume that your position is to carefully position yourselves where you are in a spot to be most effective. But opening the floodgates and inviting a free-for-all by advertising trouble in an open forum seems like inviting more trouble than a smart man should be asking for. If you have a beef with NC Zoo, then so be it. But pissing on the doorstep of others and then wondering why you'll get blindsided down the road seems rather foolish to me.
Again, just some friendly neighborhood advice from someone who's been around that block more than a few times.
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RE: Alabama Reporter Fixes the story
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by MoccasinMan on June 19, 2005
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I'll admit it was unwise to be drawn into such a public debate. I am new to this... I also have limited experience with these forums. The reason I don't participate is that they are often fruitless ways of venting frustration...as I have just proven. My original intention was to relay my feelings of a dubious nature concernig the AZA based on my experience. I was then asked to clarify and explain my position. When I did I was critisized and my credability brought into question. The fact remains that NC Zoo was asked by a NC Senator to come up with legislation to deal with a tiger problem. They produced a document that was written by API, modified by PETA and submitted it to the senator for sponsorship. It is a prohibative blanket ban on dozens of animals including reptiles leaving only the Zoo as qualified to work with these animals. I have done, and will continue to do what I feel is right in order to expose the facts of the situation.
Andrew
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RE: Alabama Reporter Fixes the story
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by Phobos on June 20, 2005
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Andrew:
Welcome to the wonderful world of forums.
As Aquaherp so perfectly stated: "Fighting on the forums is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded." He is so RIGHT as I've seen many times on the so called "Expert Forum"
This is another fine example! "They run, they Drool, watch them fall in the pool"
Al
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