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substrate question???
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by herpboy on August 9, 2006
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I have heard debates in the past concerning this topic, but I need to be sure. Has anyone ever expierienced ANY problems related to the use of aspen and cypress mulch as a substrate for snakes? I have used these both in the past but after talking with a nature center and asking them why they dont use any natural substrate they simply responded by stating that this could harm the snake. I was curious as to why, and asked them. Though they made this statement, I have still yet to hear their reasons.
Any comments are greatly appreciated
thanks
Bryan Hudson
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RE: substrate question???
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by Buzztail1 on August 9, 2006
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Bryan,
In the case of cypress mulch, if kept too moist/damp, it will grow mold at an astounding rate.
In the case of aspen "mulch", there have been reported incidents of snakes ingesting this and suffering from subsequent blockage. I, personally, have not had any problems with either and have used both.
I am currently using aspen shavings because, to me, it just looks cleaner and it is relatively cheap and easy to find/get.
The best "natural substrate" that I ever set up was made from coconut fiber that I bought in brick forms and had to reconstitute in a bucket of water. It was great mixed with potting soil for a natural setup in which I bred and raised Dusky Pigmy Rattlesnakes.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Karl
PS Just about any substrate can be hazardous to your snake if you don't stop by and check on them periodically. Even newspaper will grow mold if kept too damp. If you keep it clean and not too wet, either cypress or aspen should be fine. KHB
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RE: substrate question???
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by LarryDFishel on August 9, 2006
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I've had two types of problems with cypress, but not often or severe enough to stop using it.
1) Bringing ants or other pests into the snake room.
2) Snakes getting bits of mulch stuck in their mouths.
Some people have reported (suspected?) impaction from snakes swallowing mulch while feeding in the cage. Any snake where I'm concerned about this, I just feed in a separate container.
I mostly use paper these day, just to simplify cleaning but I like mulch for displays and don't worry too much about it.
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RE: substrate question???
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by Cro on August 9, 2006
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Bryan, as Karl stated, the wood mulches can grow mold in damp enviornments., and might be ingested by feeding reptiles. They could also harbor mites and other undesirable pests. And you just do not know what chemicals they have been exposed to. They are a bi-product of the timber industry, made from limbs that are run through a chipper. The chipper machine has machine oils and grease to keep it running. And the chain saws used to trim the limbs that become mulch sometimes leak gas and oil. And timber crops are often sprayed with defolients before harvest to remove shrubbs and small plants from underneath the trees. Who knows how much of this stuff makes it to the reptile mulch?
I like to use news paper or paper towells for non- display animals as it is easily replaced and fairly absorbant.
For display cages, I prefer natural looking aquarium gravel. It is easy to scoop up waste from, and moisture drains through it to the bottom of the cage. Of course, you have to remove gravel a couple of times a year, and wash and dry it, and completly clean the cage. Gravel is used by most Zoos. It does not wear out, it can be washed, it is non-toxic, it looks good.
I would suggest that you stay away from the pet shop aspin and cypress mulches. Something like the palm fiber stuff that Karl mentioned might be good for some animals if you can find it.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: substrate question???
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by captiveherps on August 9, 2006
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I use the coconut coir. I buy it in large bales rather than the brick size.
I would not recommend using aquarium gravel as I have seen this cause impactions. A friend of mine got a baby boa that had been kept on gravel. It had to have quite a few pieces removed from its lower intestine.
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RE: substrate question???
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by Crotalus_Catcher on August 9, 2006
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I keep most of my personal collection on Cypress and have for several years without any incidents. We used to keep a lot of our animals at the zoo on aspen and again, never had any incidents. The aspen is more prone to molding than cypress but if you keep the cage clean, you should not have any problems.
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RE: substrate question???
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by thenovice on August 9, 2006
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i have had some problems with my savannah monitor and an infection in his hemi-penis, i think it was from the substrate so know i use astro turf when breeding any of my reptiles, this could be the problem in the zoos as many of them have a great breeding program it is better not to use mulch
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RE: substrate question???
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by 23bms on August 9, 2006
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This question really comes down to the purpose of the cage and this response is from the viewpoint of the small private keeper.
My collection is relatively small (25+/-) and all the cages are "display" types. I use sand for desert types and Reptibark for most - but not quite - everything else. Both are easy to spot clean (I use a ShopVac for quick cleanups). I use the Reptibark simply because I like the look and it is easy to obtain where I am. I have never had a compaction, allergy or other reactive problem with the product. Generally, there is little if any ingestion.* My cages permit a fairly thick substrate and many of my animals like to crater or burrow in the stuff. The downside of Reptibark is the price. If I were fitting out a hundred cages I would look real hard for something else.
If I were engaged in a large scale operation with significant numbers of "non-display" animals, or focused on breeding large numbers, I would probably use newspaper (preferably the editorial pages of the New York Times - I can't think of anything better suited for being defecated on).
This is not a product plug. It just happens to work for me.
jrb
* Al's recent Acanthophis video looked like the animal was on Reptibark or an equivalent. I was wondering if it was going to snarf down the chip to the left (in most of the shots) as well. Most of my animals are so voracious that I can flip a stray adhering chip off without their batting one of their metaphorical eyelashes. (I almost bought an Acanthophis at Hamburg the other day. Sadly, I ran out of money. It looked JUST like the one in that video. I am incredibly jealous.)
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RE: substrate question???
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by AquaHerp on August 9, 2006
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Personally I prefer newspaper as it has a few solid things in its favor for me.
1. It shows mites and other ecto-parasites well to the naked eye. As well, parasites in feces do not become polluted or confusing, even lost as they might with natural substrates.
2. The paper does not build up feces, pieces of shed, and other by-products that slowly breakdown in the substrate and buildup bacteria.
3. Paper allows a clear line of sight at all times to your animals.
4. Easy clean up and replacement.
5. Free, so there's usually never an excuse for an enclosure to be left uncleaned.
6. Does not get piled into one corner as the snake moves around, many times dumping into the water bowl leaving the animal without water and the enclosure wet and humid, possibly endangering the animal's health.
7. The list goes on......
Now....when it comes down to the others, I prefer using Cypress over Aspen for a couple reasons.
1. I like the look. It exhibits well in a public institution.
2. I don't worry as much about the "dust" content of the mulch as opposed to the aspen.
3. Aspen has a tendency to dehydrate certain animals if they are not watched attentively. Animals with high, or even moderate humidity requirements can quickly dry out in aspen if not watched properly. In a matter of days I have discovered with certain species.
As you can see, my vote is on newspaper for my backup areas. For exhibits and species that require burrowing, I prefer the mulch. Either/or. It’s always a matter of hovering over you collection attentively and ensuring that they are getting what they need on a daily basis. Just because a certain product will allow you to go a week without looking at your snakes does not mean you should. After all, why have them if you aren't going to look at them eh?
Doug Hotle
General Curator
Abilene ZOOlogical Gardens
Abilene, Texas
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RE: substrate question???
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by Cro on August 9, 2006
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As far as using the Natural Stone aquarium gravel, it is many times larger than standard aquarium gravel, although it is smaller than the crushed limestone or marble used in many commercial collections and zoos. I do not think that it should prove to be a problem with ingestion when snakes are feeding.
Best Regards JohnZ
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