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RE: If the experts are busy....
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by vanerka on November 2, 2006
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I agree to some dort of restrictions, I may only be 18 but I am responsible and feel I have somthing to offer to this site and to the herpetoogical world. However, I see others come to this site and make, what seem to me, as a mockery of the herpetocultural community. Rob, Karl and many others who visit this site and often reply to questions with define answers and provide useful information for all thoes who seek it. I just hope that this site can make some kind of changes to prevent these troublemakers from running rampid on this site.
Sincerly Eric
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RE: If the experts are busy....
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by Cro on November 2, 2006
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There is really no way for a Community Website to restrict who uses it, and I sure would hate to see the loss of free speech if a site manager decided to become Lord and Dictator and restrict folks from posting because they are young, or are nut-cases, or old-farts, or lack a degree in Herpetology. The site should be Self-Regulating by folks participation or of lack of participation in each topic.
Everyone has the right to IGNORE posts that they don`t like. You do not have to become involved in a post unless you want to. They are just words on a screen, which you can turn on or off, just like a TV or radio.
Folks take things way to seriously here at times. The site should provide good information, but should also be FUN ! A good example would be the good natured but serious debate that Sal and I had resently on Gaboon fecal retention, LOL !
When someone shows up who clearly has no business keeping certain types of snakes, or working with them with mini hooks, and we can not get through to that person, we can choose to ignore him, as he is not a safe or serious reptile keeper, and is probably just looking to stir things up and agravate folks.
The suggestion by some folks here whose ability and experience I greatly respect, that the problem has to do with age, I can not agree with. There is not some ``magic age`` at which folks suddenly become responsible, as we can see from the posts of ``ForestCobraMan,`` who is not a teen, and other older folks who should not be keeping venomous reptiles.
Some folks want to restrict teens from the site. Well, those teens are the future of Herpetology, and they come here to learn. Most of them are very professional in reptile keeping, although we sometimes run into a bit of stubborness when we suggest that they are doing something wrong in husbandry. It is the nature of a teen to be somewhat defensive, LOL !
I do not believe teens come here to be in a ``place for young kids to hang out and pretend like they know something about keeping venomous herps.``
Many of the teens here are involved in their local Herpetological Society, and many are involved in giving educational talks to the public. I have met several of the young reptile keepers here, and find they take the hobby very seriously. A good example is the post above by Eric, who just finished giving a educational reptile talk to his college class.
Just my views on this thread.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: If the experts are busy....
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by herp-master on November 2, 2006
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yeah, an age restriction is ridiculious, i am 15, i dont feel that i can give information, but i am learning a lot as i read some threads. But, natedog08, my brother, said there was a lot more informative threads when he first joined up. I've come to believe him when i looked at the last few months worth of threads. Either everybody knows everything and doesnt have any questions anymore, or they all like to make threads that have nothing to do with herps or hots. I'm not saying that anybody can do anything about this, but this would be a better site if we had new people coming and asking questions. When the winter is over, and it's sumer again, my brother and i will probably have at least 10 threads a day on this. Because i will be herping just about everyday. Bottom line is, no age restrictions, because then who will ask all the questions? lol
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RE: If the experts are busy....
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by Cro on November 2, 2006
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Andy and Nate, it is good you are reading the older threads here. There are tons of usefull information available at the site. Try the search the experts feature, as it works really well to find topics that have allready been covered in the past, and be sure to look through all the photo albums, as they have the largest collection of venomous snake photos in the world, and are a great way to learn what different snakes look like and their names. Also, make sure you check out the Articles Section. Read the questions that Mark O`Shea answered there. Lots of good wintertime reading while the herps are not crawling. Also, you will find that a lot of members here have very excellent web sites linked in their profile. You should try visiting those also. You will find that the number of posts on this site slows some in the winter, and picks up again in the spring and summer, just like snake hunting does!
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: If the experts are busy....
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by rickyduckworth on November 2, 2006
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funny thing is that the younger guys are the most computer savvy and will easily bypass any type of restrictive measure. it would also be a dick thing to do that also damages the hobby. it's always the same guys complaining about the younger guys and those same regulars should know by now that there are simply stupid, self destructive people out there determined to screw something up. either arm them with tons of knowledge followed by a stern warning, or let them do what they want anyway AND go down in flames and another headline. i dunno, i hate idiots more than anyone and generally dislike people anyway, but i'd rather them have a fighting chance than no chance at all. it's the internet too and people are far more bold and intelligent online. i had a guy from a VIDEO GAME FOOTBALL SITE threaten to come to my house and "smack me in the mouth" over an e-disagreement about VIDEO GAME FOOTBALL lol. i sent him a liability release form and told him where we could meet to have an officiated "ucf" style fight if he was serious. that was the end of it lol.
it's the internet, people like to talk a lot more than usual and humility doesn't play much of a role in their worded thoughts. heck, i may have made up everything i just typed, who knows lol.
the morons don't come back over and over though. they either die thanks to natural selection or they decide they wanna fly planes and give up hots. either way, every thread doesn't have to include an insult of stupid kids by an older member that widens the riff that is definitely there. whethere older people like to admit it, they don't like to change their methods anymore than younger guys like to. sure the older guy with 30 years of experience may have more of a reason not to change, but the inherent stubbornness is there nonetheless. we're all more alike than we'd like to admit and that's a shame when you step back and look at how bad things are within the hobby. the only bad guys are the idiots who dont' respect anything and age doesn't matter
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RE: If the experts are busy....
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by rabbitsmcgates on November 3, 2006
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Well, I don't know how I could have made it any clearer that my Version One wasn't meant to be taken seriously and was meant to help people laugh and that after that it would be the real Care Sheet versions to be revised. There seems to be a difference in communication here I cannot explain except maybe people do not want to laugh. Oh well. I could have copied it and pasted into a giant message, but I didn't. I told you what I was doing and where I put the file. No one could see the file until approved by whoever takes care of that stuff. So any talk of me being irresponsible or reckless or causing trouble is irrational. Writing something that wasn't completely serious because of exaggeration, or as Mark Twain calls it, hyperbole, oh yes I am guilty of that. Because I need that, I need to laugh at my Forest Cobra. And that doesn't take away from the seriousness of taking care of our snakes one bit. Nor does it have any bearing on how seriously I take making a Care Sheet for an African Forest Cobra because that is a matter of life and death. By the way, I have always found that those complaining the most of others maturity levels are the one lacking the most.
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RE: If the experts are busy....
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by Cro on November 3, 2006
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Michael, if you want to be taken seriously, then forget about writing a Mark Twain ``hyperbole`` care sheet for the mamba and forest cobra.
Write and submit a real one for review.
Do the research. Don`t fill it with quotes you cut and pasted from what folks said here or elsewhere. That is plagerism, not research. If you are a good internet researcher, you should be able to find enough information to write a very good care sheet. The internet is full of natural history information on these snakes, and there is much information on husbandry for these snakes if you look for it. If nothing else, it will make you a better internet researcher.
Email it to 10 or 12 folks who have kept these snakes for review and their opinions before you submit it.
( 4 or 5 of them might actually review what you have written and offer suggestions ) This is the only way you can produce an accurate care sheet, as you do not have long term experience with these snakes. Then re-write the care sheet with the changes the experts you sent it to for review have suggested, then submit it to this site for review. If the site managers like what you have done, then it could wind up in the care sheet section here.
Hope this helps. Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: If the experts are busy....
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by Frawgg on November 3, 2006
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This reply is to Michael (a.k.a. "Rabbitmcgate"). You can find out a LOT of information on ANY particular reptile just by simply finding out where it is from. For example: If I want to find ot more info on the Forest Cobra, I research some reliable sources. In this case I researched "Reptiles of Southern Africa" by Rod Patterson and "Living Snakes of the World" by John M. Mehrtens. I learned that their natural geographic range is distributed from... "Zululand, Mocambique and E. Zimbabwe, this cobras usually inhabits natural forests but has adapted to areas where these have been replaced by tea and cane plantations." (quoted from Rod Patterson's book). I wanted to find a broader range for the forest cobra than from south Africa, so I looked up " Living Snakes of the World" as a refrence and found that,... "occurs in forested and adjacent savannah areas in C. Africa, south to Angola and the eastern parts of S. Africa..." (quoted from John M. Mehrtens).
Now here is the part where YOU come in. Look up geographical data. In particular, the forest cobras MICROHABITAT. Rainfall averages, average temps, high/low temps, wet/dry season, soil types, acidity/akalinity of the soil, what type of plants/trees grow there, water sources, etc...These are just a FEW of MY ideas. I'm sure you will think of more. Also, you can surmise that the forest cobra is an opportunistic critter that inhabits... "tea and cane plantations" (quoted from Rod Patterson). So this snake is remarkably adaptive and probably feeds on the mammals and birds that reside within these plantations and has a reliable water source whenever the crops need watering. I'm not going to say anymore or I'll just write my own caresheet! LOL!
This info should get you well underway in your caresheet project. Research is a momotonous and tedious task that takes time and effort. That is why people charge $ for their books! The next time I see you post on this subject, I hope it is about your completed caresheet project. GOOD LUCK! Happy herpin' and BE SAFE! (P.S. If you need/want to e-mail me about your project, look up my profile and I'd be happy to discuss your topic.)
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RE: If the experts are busy....
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by Frawgg on November 4, 2006
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That's NOT what I said or implied. I merely gave you suggestions as to how to construct your own caresheet. I gave you a sincere reply with the best intentions as to how to go about making your caresheet a tangible reality. Do you want someone to construct a caresheet for you? I think you would find it more rewarding if you put in the hard work and effort yourself. Sometimes you just gotta' buckle down and do the research yourself.
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