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de venomized
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by WVSnakelvr on September 4, 2007
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Ive always wondered is it possible to have the venom sacs surgically removed. Ive always heard this kills the animal
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by Crotalusssp on September 4, 2007
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Please fill out your profile for us so we know who we are talking to. Removing venom glands is possible. Many people, including myself, are opposed to this surgery for many reasons. Not only are many times animals mutilated by novices, but I also feel as though the integrity of the animal is compromised. This subject is a bag of worms that is opened from time to time with many emotional responses.
Charles
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RE: de venomized
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by earthguy on September 4, 2007
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To add to what Charles has already said (and to clarify for you) venom aids in a snakes digestion. Removal of the venom apparatus greatly reduces the available diesting enzymes, which decreases digestion effectiveness, which can lead to the early demise of the animal. There will be those that argue that they have had a venomoid (the appropriate term for a snake with the venom glands removed) live " a long and happy life", but I assure you that is the excetion to the rule.
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RE: de venomized
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by EPARR1 on September 4, 2007
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Removal of the venom apparatus greatly reduces the available diesting enzymes, which decreases digestion effectiveness, which can lead to the early demise of the animal.
I'm aginst the whole venomoid thing personally but if someone wants to own one so be it. Worse things are done to domestic animals for our personal gain. If it is done correctly and not a hack job I cannot see a problem with it.
I would like to see proof that the venom aids in digestion. I'm not looking to argue but I wanna see proof to back up this aqusation.
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by EPARR1 on September 4, 2007
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I just wanted to add that almost sounded like a challenge that is not the case. I just want to get to the bottom of it. From what I have read the venom has no real role in digestion.
Also getting on people for owning venomoids is really no different than AR groups getting on us for owning hots. Live and let live.
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by earthguy on September 4, 2007
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You show me your data and I'll show you mine ;)
I don't have any papers handy, but if I must I'll look some up. I would really like to read what you have read to the contrary.
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RE: de venomized
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by EPARR1 on September 4, 2007
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Ok so your basically telling me you have no proof or education to back up what you post? This upsets me whan people post something they connot back up. I'm not saying you are one of these people.
Here is one artical I read a while back.
Prey envenomation does not improve digestive performance in western diamondback rattlesnakes (Crotalus atrox)
Marshall D. McCue *
Department of Biological Sciences, University of Arkansas, Fayetteville, Arkansas 72701
Abstract
Although the toxic properties of snake venoms have been recognized throughout history, very little is known about the adaptive significance of these powerful mixtures. This study examined the popular hypothesis that prey envenomation enhances digestion by influencing the energetic costs of digestion and assimilation, gut passage time, and apparent assimilation efficiency (ASSIM) in western diamondback rattlesnakes (Crotalus atrox), a species whose venom is recognized for its comparatively high proteolytic activities. A complete randomized block design allowed repeated measures of specific dynamic action and gut passage time to be measured in eight snakes ingesting four feeding treatments (i.e., artificially envenomated live mice, artificially envenomated prekilled mice, saline injected live mice, and saline injected prekilled mice). A second experiment measured ASSIM in eight snakes ingesting a series of six artificially envenomated or six saline injected mice meals over an 8-week period. Contrary to expectations, the results of both these experiments revealed that envenomation had no significant influence on any of the measured digestive performance variables. Gut passage time averaged 6 days and ASSIM averaged 79.1%. Twenty-one hours following ingestion, postprandial metabolic rates exhibited factorial increases that averaged 3.9-fold greater than resting metabolic rate. Specific dynamic action lasted on average 88 hr and accounted for 26% of the total ingested energy. The results of this study reinforce the need to systematically examine the potential adaptive advantages that venoms confer on the snakes that produce them. J. Exp. Zool. 307A, 2007. © 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
__________________
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by EPARR1 on September 4, 2007
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Earthguy I'm gonna call it a draw! I cannot find the other articals. I also cannot find any facts that it does aid in digestion in all reality we could go back and fourth all day.
I have found plenty of articals that sugest it might but then back to captive hots and feeding F/T they digest fine. This is a no win situation or topic. Except with the WDB.
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by EPARR1 on September 4, 2007
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If you do have articals or other wise that prove it does aids digestion post it or email it to me thanks. I would like to read them.
The whole venomoid thing is always a hot topic.LOL I really know better than to post on this topic kinda like Religion and Politics.
Besafe
Eric G.
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by Rob_Carmichael on September 4, 2007
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Our facility takes in a number of venomous herps from confiscations/animal abuse/etc. and on occasion we have had to remove venomoids and keep them at our facility as they are still considered illegal (for good reason). We currently have crotalines and elapids and these "venomoids" feed well, defecate regularly and show no signs of any stress. Some have lived long lives despite this disability. That doesn't make it right by any means but the fole of venom in digestion is something we still don't fully understand. A snakes' digestive, whether it's venomous or not, is fully capable of breaking down whole animal prey. This is simply observational evidence.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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