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Are hide rocks recommended?
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by stormnut on November 24, 2007
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I currently use a hide rock for my southern copperhead. I've heard that using hide rocks can create aggressiveness in hots, but I've also heard that they help provide security and that snakes generally eat better. I'm just curious as to who uses them and who doesn't and why?
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RE: Are hide rocks recommended?
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by Atrox788 on November 24, 2007
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Hide spots are an essential part of keeping any reptiles. The added security gives them a better sense of welling being and reduces their stress.
Just think of it this way. If you live in a house with a bunch of friends how would you feel if you didn't have a room to get into and get away from them once in awhile.
Lack of a hide box does nothing for aggression. The only times snakes are aggressive is when feeding. The hide box will do nothing to affect that either way aside from making the animal more stressed and hense not eating as much as it should.
In my experience snakes have their own personalities from the get go. They are either laid back, spastic or sometimes a little bit of each. Its just a part of keeping them.
Remember, you are not keeping them so they can do what you want. You are keeping them and watching them thrive. As their Stuart it is your obligation to provide the best possible living conditions. Denying them a place to hide is not fulfilling that obligation.
Jeremy
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RE: Are hide rocks recommended?
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by stormnut on November 24, 2007
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Thanks for the replies. I notice that my copperhead seems to get more agitated when it's out in the open cage and more relaxed under the rock. Since I've had him 3 out of the 4 times I've fed him, he has attacked his prey within an inch or two of the entrance to the rock and when he's ready to eat, he simply drags the mouse under the hide rock and seems to eat in peace. I have talked to others who are more experienced and they say that everyone of their hots has a hide rock for them to go under.
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RE: Are hide rocks recommended?
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by Chris_Harper on November 24, 2007
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I've used an assortment of hide boxes, including shoeboxes with a U cut into them for access. I have to agree that it stimulates feeding responses, because the snakes really feel like they are in a good ambush position. It's like a morale booster or something. When a mouse walks by the entrance, pow. It's usually a lightning quick strike, and even finicky eaters fall into a normal rhythm with a good hide box from which to ambush.
By using a shoebox or something similar, they can either get under it, or on top of it.
Here's a NIKE shoebox used in this manner:
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/showfilepage/519?offset=11
CH
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RE: Are hide rocks recommended?
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by stormnut on November 25, 2007
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I have to agree Chris. My copperhead is about 3 feet long and he completely coils up and hides under his rock. It has a U shaped entrance and that's exactly what he does. The mice walk in front of the entrance and it's a lightning quick strike. The 2nd time I fed him, the mouse made the mistake of actually walking into the hide rock and was nailed underneath it. Talk about walking into the snakes den.
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RE: Are hide rocks recommended?
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by Rob_Carmichael on November 25, 2007
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We don't provide commercial hide boxes for our copperheads (southerns) because we keep them in naturalistic vivaria. Instead, we provide a thick mat of soil/forest humus and then layer the bottom with several inches of dead leaves. Additionally, we have several "snags" laid along the bottom of the exhibit. Our copperheads feel completely secure in this setting as they can lie amongst the leaves, or, along the sides of the dead logs/limbs. It's far more enjoyable to keep copperheads (and all herps) in naturalistic or semi naturalistic set ups - it's something our hobby sorely lacks. After spending the day at sewerfest (southeast wis. herp festival), helping out Tim Cole of Designer Atrox/Austin Reptiles and I had a great time, I see so many folks really missing out on the enjoyment of the hobby. Its become more about getting "investment" animals, or, getting bored with what you have and having to get that hot new animal on the market, versus taking a few steps back and re-evaluating what really brings enjoyment, keeping fewer animals but setting them up in large exhibit style set ups. For me, I love watching the inquisitiveness of even commonly available herps in naturalistic vivaria - it's really amazing.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: Are hide rocks recommended?
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by Cro on November 25, 2007
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Snakes need to feel hidden and secure in their exhibits.
Last Summer, I attended the traveling exhibit that the Smithsonian Institute and American Museum of Natural History has going around the country.
It was at the Fernbank Museum of Natural History at the time.
There was an exhibit with a huge female Gaboon Viper that was very gravid. She had no cover or hiding spot in the exhibit. She was at face level for every 6 year old kid who walked by the exhibit. Everytime a person walked by the exhibit, that poor old gaboon would take a deep breath. You could tell she was really stressed at having no cover in the exhibit. Something as simple as a half bushell basket of dry leaves would have made a huge difference in that snake.
The folks who created this exhibit had locals taking care of the snakes while it was in different cities.
Folks like George Zug and Jim Murphy should be really ashamed for an exhibit that tortured a snake like this exhibit did, if they were the ones who could have changed the display. I am not sure if they are they ones or not, but I know they work there, and were part of the planning for the travelling exhibit.
What it comes down to is that captive snakes need to feel secure, they need hiding places.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Are hide rocks recommended?
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by stormnut on November 25, 2007
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Well my copperheads habitat has alpine pellets as a substrate with a hide rock. Then I went out in the yard and picked out several different colors of fall leaves, a couple of small pine cones, some pine needles, and a shale rock where it blends in with it's surroundings. I also have a good sized water dish. I know that at the Columbia expo, alot of the snakes that were open to the crowds were extremely stressed out and agitated. The ones that were in cages with some places to hide were much more relaxed and hardly even moved.
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RE: Are hide rocks recommended?
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by Rob_Carmichael on November 26, 2007
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John, I do agree that hide areas are essential. Whether that's accomplished with natural objects or commercial hide areas or something in between is irrelevant...they just need the opportunity to hide. For public exhibits, it's a challenge as we are trying to find the balance between meeting the needs of the animals while making sure that visitors can see the animals. So far, we've done very well in accomplishing both and the needs of the animals are always our top concern.
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