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cobra with kid
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by tigers9 on June 7, 2008
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I assume cobra with kid was defanged?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3oBELh_KSs&feature=related
still dumb IMHO
Z
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RE: cobra with kid
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by Chance on June 7, 2008
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Completely retarded. The snake didn't appear to be able to open its mouth, so I would assume it was sewn shut.
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RE: cobra with kid
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by LarryDFishel on June 7, 2008
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Yeah, this one's been floating around for a while now. Most likely sewn shut, or maybe just so damaged he's afraid to open his mouth...
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RE: cobra with kid
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by Cro on June 9, 2008
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I am going to be a bit contrarian on this one.
Most American folks cringe when they see the baby with the cobra that has it`s mouth sewed shut. Why ??? Is the kid in danger ??? NO ! Is the snake in danger ??? NO ! The kid is learning, and the snake is learning to not let himself get caught by humans.
There is an sub-culture in India that specializes in collecting snakes. These are the "snake charmer" folks who for years would entertain tourists with the cobra and the flute routine.
These folks used "harmless" (mouth sewed shut) cobras to train their kids at an early age to not be afraid of snakes.( which is better than folks in this country who condition all kids to fear snakes from an early age).
Anyway, the Indian Government resently outlawed the use of cobras in snake charming. Well, this put a lot of folks who were skilled snake catchers out of work.
Rom Whitaker did somethign amazing with this. He set up antivenom producing banks, which employed these talented snake catching folks in a new line of work. They now still catch snakes as they have for hundreds of years, however, they now milk the snakes and use the venom in the production of antivenom. This is an huge improvement in a country that has thousands of venomous snake bites each year. Antivenom is not only now more available, but local medics are also being trained in its administration. This could save thousands of lives a year.
So, who are we to criticize a culture that is different than ours. A culture that has collected and worked with snakes for hundreds of years. These folks have developed a metheod of conditioning their kids to not fear snakes. Perhaps if we did the same in this country, there would not be the huge number of conditioned folks who fear / hate all snakes ???
Fear of snakes in not inborn, it is conditioned. When someone who the little tyke respects like granny, or the parent says "stay away from that rock wall, there might be snakes" or "stay out of that hight grass, there might be a poisonous snake in there" they are conditioning the kid to fear snakes. And that kid often grows to adulthood with a phobia of snakes that he does not even know where he got it from.
Fortunatly, a few of us did not listen to granny, or our parents, and became Herpetologists !
If we took rattlesnakes that could not bite to nursery schools, and let the little kids play with them, those kids would grow up without the fears of snakes that many folks in this country have.
More power to those folks in India who know a lot more about child psychology than folks here do.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: cobra with kid
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by tigers9 on June 9, 2008
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Hmm, wouldn’t this teach kids to be too NOT scared of snakes?... that they can get ‘hit’ by cobra and nothing happens? I mean, if a kid meets unaltered cobra and does that, it is a dead kid…
Z
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RE: cobra with kid
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by Cro on June 9, 2008
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I don't think so. As they get older, the kids are taught respect for snakes that still have venom.
It is more of developing a familiarity / recognition, than developing a lack of fear.
If you look for more of these videos on UTube, you will see that the older kids are being involved over time with snakes also.
It is ongoing learning as the kids age.
And it is a community thing, as the whole community is involved in snake hunting.
There are not piles of dead Indian snake hunters lined up in the streets of these towns. And there are not piles of dead snake bitten kids, also. They are doing something right.
I am not going to criticize hundreds of years of culture, even if it shows things that do not fit in well with our culture.
What Rom has created with these peoples is saving thousands of lives a year. And bringing the younger generation into this is also a great thing.
After all, if the kids in these towns don't become snake hunters, they will wind up answering outsourced calls from folks in the US who are calling tech support for help with their computers, etc... and we sure don't need more of that.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: cobra with kid
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by tigers9 on June 9, 2008
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cro crack me up, like the joke?/true stereotypes about oriental people driving skills (DWA, Driving While Asian - I learned that term from a paramedic I got into discussion with in Death Valley Gas pump years ago), I have to agree, people from India tend to be some of the worst software engineers, Europeans and Asians are better at that.
As for cultural stuff, I agree, cant be changed overnight, I had so many fights with tiger$ con$ervationist$, trying to explain to them, you can not erase thousands of years of Chinese medicine and history…
I took a lot of crap having this on REXANO site:
http://www.rexano.org//CD_CONSERVATION.htm
Barun Mitra’s of Indian Liberty Institute stuff, we email privately once in a while, but it is not that we like tigers for parts, personally I find the idea 100% disgusting, but Chinese do Not care how I feel, it is not about me, to save the tiger, it might have to be farmed, like alligator in FL:
http://www.rexano.org//CD_CONSERVATION.htm
Z
cro wrote<,After all, if the kids in these towns don't become snake hunters, they will wind up answering outsourced calls from folks in the US who are calling tech support for help with their computers, etc... and we sure don't need more of that. >>
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RE: cobra with kid
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by LarryDFishel on June 10, 2008
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I agree with some of what you say John, but in general, I have a real problem with the mentality of the following statement.
"I am not going to criticize hundreds of years of culture, even if it shows things that do not fit in well with our culture."
Like shark finning, honour killings, slavery? Just because a culture has been doing something for centuries doesn't mean it's not a horrible, inexcusable thing that should be changed... You can justify almost anything that way.
(No, I don't equate sewing a snake's mouth shut to slavery. Just making the point.)
And I don't think anyone here (certainly not I) was suggesting that the child OR the snake was in any immediate danger from what was shown in the video.
Even if you think it's a worthwhile way to initiate the kids, I'm sure they could afford a few inches of tape, which could be removed later. It's the act of sewing the snakes mouth closed and the fact that they almost certainly use that snake until it starves to death and then sew up another one that I find pretty hard to excuse...
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RE: cobra with kid
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by Cro on June 11, 2008
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Larry, perhaps I should have said "I am not going to criticize hundreds of years of (snake handling) culture, even if it shows things that do not fit in well with our culture."
After all, I was talking about the snake hunting / handling culture in India, not cultures in general, or slavery, honor killings, or shark fins.
The world is full of bad cultures, like the Japanese and Russians killing and eating dolphins and whales, and the shark finners, slavery, etc.
Folks in this country have also contributed a lot to the distruction of primative cultures, by sending missionaries out around the world.
Folks in this country often are quick to look down on other cultures, and I happen to believe that they way they train their kids in India at an early age with snakes actually serves a purpose.
It is pure speculation as to wether they will let the snake slowly starve to death after sewing its mouth shut, or not. Because these folks make their livings with snakes, I am betting just the opposite, that they will release the snake after it has served its purpose, and remove the stitches. But heck, I will send Rom a couple of roles of tape next time I get a chance. Not likely they have Home Depots there to purchase tape.
The main thing, is that they used one cobra for a specific purpose, and it may or may not have survived.
When you compare that to the hundreds of thousands of snakes in this country that are needlesly run over by automobiles (often intentionally) every year, or killed on site, I think that is a much worse cultural thing. And we are supposed to be educated people.
Every day, I look at the forum on Georgia Outdoor News, and almost everyday, there is nice color photos from some redneck who has murdered another harmless, or venomous snake. And these folks do that despite it being illegal in Georgia. Me, and a few others try to educate those "dumb masses" on that forum, but with little success. Those that think the only good snake is a dead snake are not going to change their minds. And they will pass that attitude to their kids.
Problems like that in this country are far more important to try to correct, than being concerned about one cobra being used in one cult of folks in India.
Best Regards John Z
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