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undercage heating options
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by catenatus on August 16, 2008
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I have some small pigmy rattlers in 20 gal aqauriums(I know not best solution!) Their heating pads no longer work;are there any good commercial under aqaurium heating pads out there??
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RE: undercage heating options
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by FSB on August 16, 2008
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Something that I have found works well in a pinch is to place the cages on a sturdy banquet-type folding table and then get one of those little oil-filled electric radiators (about $35 at Lowe's). The radiator should partially fit under the table, and you can experiment with the settings until the proper temperature is achieved. Placing the radiator under one end of the table or another will provide a gradient (one side of the table top being the warm, the other the cool side). The radiator can also be rolled in and out to provide more or less warmth. Make frequent checks with your temp gun and you should be able to easily warm several tanks this way. It basically turns the entire table top into a large undertank heat pad.
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RE: undercage heating options
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by Rob_Carmichael on August 16, 2008
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Although I don't think tanks are the best solution for hots, I have seen some well done secure lids on aquariums and you might go that route if you want to keep them in aquariums - contrary to popular belief, they are not as bad as what people say if they are constructed in a way where the top is affixed to the rim and they can be locked - obviously, not good for public exhibit but for a home collection, they can be serviceable (not recommend, but serviceable).
For pygmies, you might consider just a low wattage heat lamp on one end - this gives them light and basking which these little crotalines enjoy and when the heat goes off at night (put on a household timer) you will have a nice natural night drop. The Bean Farm in WA sells high quality heat pads if you want to go that route - just make sure the tanks are raised a bit so that the pad isn't sandwhiched between the tank and the surface.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: undercage heating options
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by theemojohnm on August 16, 2008
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I would just like to put in my two-cents about the glass aquarium topic...
I agree that glass aquariums are not the greatest solution for keeping hots. (But not for security reasons).
I have seen MANY, VERY secure glass aquariums, even more so than alot of the comercial slidding glass door cages. It really is not hard to secure an aquarium for use with HOTS. - Of course the same screen top that you'd use for say an iguana likey would'nt be the same you would use for a cobra... there are many independant manufactures that make more secure sliding-type screen tops for glass aquariums.
The reasons I have found that glass aquariums do not work well with most snakes is more about the stress put on the animal..
ESPECIALLY rattlesnakes. - I find that rattlers calm down alot more, alot sooner, if they are not "exposed" on all three side, opposed to one viewing side as they would be in say, a Vision cage, or other comercial manufacturers unit.
This is mostly obvious in the long run. Alot of species "calm down" and will get used to a certain routine ALOT sooner if a cage feels secure TO THEM.
And this is sometimes hard to accomplish with the unessesarily high, and "open" glass walls of an aquarium.
The next thing that is somtimes difficult to acheive when using a glass aquarium is feeding a snake without "spooking" it. One thing that is true with allmost ALL snakes is... they do not like to be stood over. - And when using an aquarium, the top (in most cases), is your only access point to offer the snakes food from.
We all know how in most cases, neonates would rather slither right past food when the know the cage is open or are uneasy. With an aquarium, this difficulty increases by ALOT. The snake sees you approaching, then senses alot of shuffling above as you remove the screen lid, and finally has to deal with a HUGE animal (compared to itself) standing over it attempting to offer it food. When you are feeding neonates or "difficulty species" you need the least ammount of stress as possible, and a glass aquarium seems to allow more un-needed stress to the animal, mostly because of the "exposure" the animal feels (seeing EVERYTHING around it on all sides), and the demensions of most standard aquariums.
I simply do not use the aquariums for these reasons. I do use them for tempory use somtimes when I am
quarantining an animal, but never for long-term use.
I understand due to particular situations that it is sometime necessary to use them, but I just dont for long-term use.
If the snakes are small enough, them somtimes it can work, but as I am finding out (for the first time "long-term") that Sistrurus can be tricky snakes at times.
I sometimes cover the back and sides of glass aquariums with whatever is availiable to limit the snakes viewpoint, which cuts back of the stress the animals seem to gain if they are "exposed" on all sides by open glass.
Those are my thought on why glass aquariums do not work for me,
Good luck with your setup! It is perfectly do-able, just not easy.
----------------------------------------------
Anyways... I agree, if you could raise the tank it would be benificial if you were to use an "under-tank" heat pad. Honestly though, I would probably go with a "basking lamp". It is still summer now, and if your room temperature averages 70-75 (like most0 you should be fine. Maybe a florescent or incandesdant basking spot would be benificial when digesting a meal, but I would'nt worry about ambient temps too much...
~John.
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RE: undercage heating options
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by agkistrodude on August 17, 2008
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I agree, aquarium tops can be made secure. I would never use a store bought screen top though. Especially with a pit viper.Thats an accident waiting to happen.I don't use them much any more except in a pinch, but mine have 1/2 inch plywood cut to fit the dimension of the inner lip of the tank. 2 pieces, one side is epoxied to the rim. The other is piano-hinged w/lock. Air vents are screened from both sides.(1/2 inch gap between screens) As far as stress from being visible from all 4 sides, I spray paint 3 sides black.(outside)Then only the front is open to view.I tested the epoxy/wood/plastic adhesion and the plywood came apart or the plastic cracked before the epoxy joint gave.I prefer swing open fronts now so I only use the old aquariums for temporary cages such as quarantine. Take care, Marty
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RE: undercage heating options
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by FSB on August 18, 2008
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Well, I thought this thread was about undercage heating options, and so I didn't want to get into caging options since Shawn indicated in his initial question that he already knew that tanks weren't the best option for venomous snakes, and the issue of caging has been hashed and rehashed here repeatedly, but I guess there's always room for more! Good points all around, and I definitely agree that aquariums can be fitted with secure lids, and while obviously not desirable for public displays, can be very useful for housing juveniles, off-exhibit specimens and for quarantine, since they allow for the animal to be easily observed and monitored. Just so there's no misunderstanding, the table of tanks I was describing is actually set up for my young Dumeril's boas, so I wasn't even thinking about venomous snakes when suggesting this option. My local species, including timber rattlensnakes and copperheads, are largely kept at room temperatures and either released or brumated over the winter, but I have no idea of Shawn's location, and the need for warming may vary. I have had snake rooms of concrete block construction built into a hill that remained rather cool even during the hottest part of summer, so individual situations vary and temperatures have to be carefully monitored and adjusted regardless.
And I agree that it is definitely a good idea to blacken or otherwise cover three sides of a tank whether the snake is venomous or not, and this can be done either with paint (on the outside!), backgrounds or by using a shelf rack that encloses each tank on three sides. I always situate tanks against a wall or something, and have them enclosed on the sides by other barriers. Incidentally, I would never keep an iguana in a tank! They like to breathe.
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RE: undercage heating options
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by theemojohnm on August 18, 2008
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LOL. Well since this thread has been further side-tracked, why not:
Iguanas "liking more ventilation", that would depend on the size of the animal, the surface area of the top of the tank, and how much of the (SCREEN) top was actually exposed, and if branches (perches) were placed close enough to the top of the tank (which is where they like to be).
All of my iguana setups had a mesh cage top which did fit onto an equally sized aquarium as a base. Keeping an iguanna limited to just a glass aquarium may not be the most "appropriate" way to house them, but with a tall tank and appropriate screen top is perfectly doable, and the animals fair just fine.
With a basking light (RAISED a bit of course).
~John.
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RE: undercage heating options
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by Buzztail1 on August 18, 2008
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For what its worth, Shawn ...
I have kept and bred Dusky Pigmy Rattlesnakes for many years in converted aquariums (with double screened padlocking lids) and found that they do very well with several hiding spots and ambient room temperatures (mid 70s to mid 80s). They may benefit from a small hot spot which can be provided by a small heat lamp but I don't believe that is necessary.
Good luck with your snakes.
R/
Karl
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RE: undercage heating options
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by FSB on August 19, 2008
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Uh-oh, John.... these guys are liable to skin us alive
for talking about iguanas... ok,ok, an aquarium is acceptable for neonates, but once they start getting their spines they should be in something else. I've seen too many 2-foot iguanas languishing in 20-gallon long tanks with nothing to climb on. Those new tops that raise the height of the aquarium would probably work well, though. Since all the iguanas I've been stuck with lately are ones people have unloaded, they tend to be on the large side. I was fine with letting my ex take care of them until she took off, then it got to be a real pain. I hate chopping up fruits and vegetables every day (unless I'm getting paid!) and much prefer rodent eaters. However, it's really easy to make a nice round vertical cage out of a roll of wire mesh, and that frees up an aquarium for something else (like pygmies). And now that Karl has come clean, I have to own up and agree with him that pygmies will do just fine in a secure tank. Dang it all!
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RE: undercage heating options
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by Buzztail1 on August 19, 2008
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LOL Fred.
Way back in the dark ages (when the SHHS had a newsletter) I published an article with the plans for converting any sized aquarium to a safe double-screened padlocking venomous cage (Summer 2001 issue).
It has since been republished by the San Diego Herp Society and is in review for the Georgia Herp Society.
I also published a Captive Care article on the Dusky Pigmy Rattlesnake in the Winter 2002 issue which was also republished by the San Diego Herp Society and the Georgia Herp Society.
Unfortunately, these particular issues are not available in the sample newsletter section of our file library.
I will see if I can find the original MS Word documents of the articles and upload them to the site for future references.
R/
Karl
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