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drugged snakes ?
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by newguy on October 9, 2008
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My Dad said he saw a behind the scenes special on Steve Irwin and that it said alot of the snakes he handled were drugged to make them more docile. Is there any truth to this? I have watched some of these guys on T.V. and they seem to handle these snakes in a pretty cavalier manner.
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RE: drugged snakes ?
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by Phobos on October 9, 2008
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I don't think the snakes were drugged but were certainly "cooled down" to make them a bit more managable.
Al
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RE: drugged snakes ?
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by Cro on October 9, 2008
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Some of the rattlesnakes that Steve Irwin used when he filmed his US snake collecting trip were so lethargic, they could hardly crawl away, LOL. Who knows how long they had been in the cooler before they were filmed ?
It just does not do to have the TV star get nailed by a "hot to go" rattlesnake while he is filming.
It would not surprize me if they also milk the snakes in advance, to reduce the potential venom load that a snake might deliver, if the TV star or one of the crew just happens to get bitten.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: drugged snakes ?
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by newguy on October 9, 2008
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to Al and John Z: "cooled down"? in the refridgerator "cooler"?!? I know that sounds like a question a simpleton would ask but I am completely new to this and I have ABSOLUTELY NEVER heard of anything like that.If so does the cold simulate winter temps. in a way that makes the snake go into a hibernation type state?
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RE: drugged snakes ?
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by jared on October 9, 2008
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Many male snakes of certain species are much more viable when "cooled". A term regarding simulated hibernation which many breeders preform on a yearly basis. Personally mine go as such they are paired up at the end of November and kept from food at least 2 weeks (they cannot thermal regulate and can die of food poisoning if you cool your animals and they still have food in there system). They are placed in bins with newspaper, adequate cover (hide boxes), a water bowl, and then deep layers of pine straw (for most my pitvipers) over 5 in deep is fine. I take them to my hibernaculum (built up garage) and put them in there from Nov to March, NEVER any food and I also deprive them of all light (some breeders are testing the theory that cooling can be done just depriving them of light) for the entire period. Animals SHOULD never be moved much in this state. I check them once ever 2 weeks to refill water in hibernation. They snakes are always kept below 55f and preferably between 45 and 50 (i have done this with numerous breeders to produce successful litters from everything from horridus to ornate cantils). Temp spikes are gonna make your animals more succeptable to respiratory issues and other illness. This part of the science can be very delicate, and again it is mostly utilized for breeder adults. There have been incidents of "butchers" cooling snakes in freezers in attempts to do gland removals (there was a thread a few years back about it). Rapid cooling can be done to slow the snake, but as previously stated, cooling and rapidly bringing back up leaves them open to various illness. Also, I dont know if Irwin "iceboxed" snakes prior to the shows, but I do know one of the guys who helped put him on the Horridus dens and those animals may have been cold coming out of the dens but definatly not drugged or cooled. Funny enough, he wasnt having much luck for the first part of the week, then a few calls later he was right in um, usually how it goes. Hope that helped with the cooling question,
Jared
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RE: drugged snakes ?
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by Cro on October 9, 2008
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Putting a snake, lizard, turtle, or frog into a portable ice box cooler is a well known, and frequently practiced technique that is used by film makers.
This will cool the animal's body temperature down below 40 degrees F, which will make the animal much easier to work with. It will tend to sit in place, or crawl slowly away. It is much easier to film an animal that is not fleeing for it's life. I have no doubt whatsoever that was done with some of the Western rattlesnake footage that Irwin shot. In a couple of scenes, he is wearing shorts and a short sleeve shirt, and the air temperature has to be above 80 degrees, and the rattlesnake that he just "happens" to walk up on is crawling away slow like molassis. He gets within a few inches of the snake, and reaches out and picks it up by the tail area.
How much effect this rapid cooling and warming back up have on the animals is hard to say. It might lead to some sort of respiratory problem. The same type of cooling to slow bodily functions is used on humans in some types of surgery.
Without using cooling, there would be a lot less films of reptiles on the TV science programs.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: drugged snakes ?
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by toddg on October 10, 2008
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I have a herd time believing Steve did ANYTHING to animals prior to filming.
Of all the rattlesnakes I’ve handled on the west coast here, I’ve yet seen one beat a hasty retreat.
Remember the episodes with the Egyptian cobra or the black-necked spitter or the many crocodiles, those animals didn’t appear sedated, cooled, stoned, or anything elsed in those appearances.
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RE: drugged snakes ?
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by Cro on October 10, 2008
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Todd, it is much less likely that Irwin cooled down any of the cobras, as he was comfortable working with Elapids and very accustomed to their behavior.
And it is unlikely that anything was done to change the behavior of crocodiles. I do not think they make crocodile sized Igloo ice chests, LOL.
Pit vipers are a different story. I have watched interviews where Irwin talked about how close he came to getting bitten while filming here in the US. To quote a great Herpetologist, "Pit Vipers are heat seeking missiles with fangs." They have the ability to bite in any direction with great accuracy. I have also watched behind the scenes shows of folks filming wildlife shows, where the snake wrangler takes a cold snake out of a cooler, and places it into the scene to be filmed. Don't get the idea that I am trying to criticize Irwin. Cooling snakes for filming is a very common practice. Did Irwin do that ? Hard to say, but some of his shows that I have watched that involved Pit Vipers would sure tend to suggest that the snakes had been cooled, just based on the behavor of them.
Best Regards John Z
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by toddg on October 10, 2008
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The “cooled snake” conspiracy is certainly possible Mr. Z and I really can’t speak with intelligence on Irwin’s filming practices but, given his stance on animal treatment and the fact that he (at least on occasion} brought or borrowed snakes with him for location shoots, I think it far more likely that he chose the least excitable critters for filming.
I would also think that for someone as popular as Irwin was/is that the cooling practice would have leaked out and made some tabloid headlines ala “Croc Hunter Cruel to Crotalids”.
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by Cro on October 10, 2008
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Todd, now days, the animal rights folks are looking for anything to use to charge folks with cruel treatmet of animals.
Personally, I do not necessicarily think the practace of cooling snakes for photos is cruel, if it is used carefully, so that the animal is not cooled too quickly, or warmed up too quickly.
I just know the technique has frequently been used by animal photographers. Many folks taking photos of snakes will shoot the photos early in the morning, when the snakes will have often cooled naturally 20 or 30 degrees with the night time lower temperatures.
Over the course of 24 hours, especially this time of year, when snakes are hanging out near dens, a snakes internal temperature might change from 40 degrees to 85 degrees, just from daily fluxuations in air temperature. If a snake is put into a cooler before a photo shoot, it might have it's temperature drop to 36 or 38 degrees, which is not much cooler than normal night temperatures in many places during the spring and fall.
Again, I am not trying to say anything against Steve Irwin. He did great work, and was fun to watch on TV.
Suggesting that he as a film maker might have used some well known techniques to help stage animals for a better photo shoot is just an observation. All film makers use artistic liscense. When we see a film of Irwin out hunting snakes, and he says "its just me out here in the wilderness," one has to wonder just who is filming the event, and just who is doing the lighting, and just who is doing the voice recording, and just who is catering lunch, LOL. His filming crew was often 10 or 12 people.
Best Regards John Z
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