|
1-10 of 10 messages
|
Page 1 of 1
|
|
substrate
|
Reply
|
|
by greasemonkey on February 14, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
what type of bedding do you use for your snakes. I have used cypress and aspen and like aspen more. I had a cottonmouth turn up dead with cypress in his mouth has anyone had a problem like this? thanks BOb.
|
| |
|
RE: substrate
|
Reply
|
|
by TomT on February 14, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have lost several snakes over the years to cypress or other substrate impaction. I like cypress mulch for a number of reasons, but it can lead to death if ingested... There's really no sure-fire way to prevent substrate impaction except to keep animals on newspaper... I am using saw mill "fines" which are the pieces that come from the saw mill blade kerf when logs are slabbed. I live close to a mill, and I can get a pickup truck load of saw mill fines for 5$... that goes a long way when cleaning cages. It is wet when I get it and it releases humidity slowly, which is nice for tropical animals... I can also dry it out by spreading it on the floor and baking it with a heat lamp for a few days if I want to use it for desert or dry climate animals... it is also small "roundish" shaped pieces about an 1/8 of an inch across, so it is less likely to cause inpaction in larger animals or small....
Other experimental substrates I have used include but are not limited to some homemade dirt (peat, sand and vermiculite) I made.... sand, dirt from the yard, and I've kept snakes on chipped spruce... all of which proved to be less than satisfactory to me for various reasons... newspaper is great... and Aspen is good if you can get it in large bales....
Tom
|
| |
|
RE: That's odd....
|
Reply
|
|
by greasemonkey on February 14, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
hey tom thanks for the info I do not like to use newspaper due to the fact it takes more contact with the animals more often. I am not afraid of my animals but I do not like hand to hand combat unless needed. I use small aspen mulch now it would seem they could digest it if they ingest some. alot of the guys I know here use newspaper which is good but I think I will stick to the aspen.
|
| |
|
RE: substrate
|
Reply
|
|
by Hamadryad on February 15, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
It is criminal to use cypress and other wood mulch as a substrate especially when there are so many documented deaths due to impaction and involuntary ingestion.try shredded paper with high cellulose ( kitchen towels Brown paper toilet paper news print( without print so there are less chances of plumbumic poisoning)
dehydrated mature alfaalfa or blue grass, or dehydrated and crushed mimosa works great..
|
| |
|
RE: substrate
|
Reply
|
|
by TomT on February 15, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
That'd be me... a criminal. I've stopped using cypress, in case you stopped reading before you established my criminal status.... I'd like to see the source of these "so many" documented deaths, if you have them.
There's nothing wrong with cypress mulch, or any other mulch as a substrate. Feeding on these kinds of substrata can be trouble, but if you watch carefully, and I didn't at the time I had animals die as a result of impaction, you can prevent problems with mulch. Feeding the snake in a seperate enclosure on newspaper can eliminate problems associated with mulch(es) too.
It's a pretty unkind thing to call mulch users criminals, particularly in light of the fact that cypress can be used safely in most instances. Arboreals do well with mulch substrate, as do just about all the other animals I kept on it. The only thing criminal I did was maintain too many animals at a time, as I did not have the time to watch each animal each every meal back then. I've "downsized" and have more time to devote to individual animals now then I used to have, and I haven't had a impaction related death in five years or more...
Tom
|
| |
|
Well Tom...
|
Reply
|
|
by Buzztail1 on February 15, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Vishal's profile says he is a vet and I would guess he has seen his fair share of poorly maintained animals where he is. There certainly have been a lot of questions over the past year about reptiles ingesting various substrates and even deaths (mostly Bitis ssps and tortoises) from impaction.
Criminal IS a strong word. Hard to imagine it applied to every single zoo that I have ever been to since none of them use paper substrate.
My pigmies are on bed-a-beast with a scattering of leaves over that and hides buried down in it with just the access hole in the top showing. This setup is working much better for me than I had anticipated.
For about a year and a half I have been using aspen and while it does have its uses, I am considering switching back to paper.
Chris has reported using a mixture of aspen and cypress that he mixes together and then sets out to dry in the sun.
Impaction from substrate is always a concern and prevention of that requires a little extra attention. For animals that you want to avoid contact with (for me that would include just about any fast elapid) newspaper (or similar paper product) might be the better way to go with trap boxes to make changing out the paper a little easier. For the heavier crotalids, viperids and even the arboreals, a substrate of some appropriate mulch can be used with little problem. A separate feeding container can be used in some cases. I have had a problem with snakes that won't eat if disturbed and now I just watch to make sure no large pieces of mulch get ingested. No matter what substrate you use, it will eventually need cleaning and replacing. I once met a guy who thought he had it licked. He used aspen for a Dusky Pigmy Rattlesnake that he had found in his back yard. Once a month he would take his shop-vac with the long tube and vaccuum out the old mulch and toss in new. He eventually vaccuuumed up his snake and killed it. He no longer keeps snakes for which decision I am grateful.
As the individual collections get larger, in general, I think more people tend towards newspaper sustrate for ease of managing. Smaller collections tend towards aesthetically pleasing displays and therefore substrate choices like the mulches. I am not too sure about using a mimosa based mulch. Isn't mimosa an aromatic wood? That could possibly lead to a respiratory problem. I haven't seen it in stores anywhere around here so am not familiar with the product. Just wondering.
Gosh, this rambled on longer than I originally meant to. Hope it provides some useful info somewhere in there.
Karl
|
| |
|
RE: substrate
|
Reply
|
|
by Hamadryad on February 16, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Sorry, did not mean to offend you, my implication is not a reference to a person or set of people. its a reflection of strong feelings developed over experiencing the results of questionable/debatable herpetocultural practicies.I feel just as strongly about Pinning,use of snaketongs, indiscriminate breeding and backyard venom labs.
|
| |
|
RE: substrate
|
Reply
|
|
by greasemonkey on February 16, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
What possibly could be wrong with useing snake tongs. I have a pair of gentle giants and I have used them for about 2 years and have had no problems. There is not the adrenalin rush as with hooking I guess that is what alot of people in the hobby are out to get though. I hook most of my stuff but I have a large puff adder around 5 feet that does not hook well at all and the tongs work wonders. If I have to pin, which is seldom, I use a pinning hook which is easy on the snake. I would like to know what snakes hamadrad is keeping? and do you use newspaper? and have you ever been invenomated?
|
| |
|
RE: substrate
|
Reply
|
|
by spanky on February 20, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I to use saw mill chips, only I bake mine in the oven on 350 for 20 mins. befor using it. To make sure all germs are dead. does that sound right to anyone else.?
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to this topic.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Check our help page for help using
, or send questions, comments, or suggestions to the
Manager.
|
