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discourage
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by boidsnake on January 5, 2009
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Don’t let anyone discourage you in your endeavors. Get with an experienced venomous reptile keeper who is patient, knowledgeable, and responsible. Don’t cut corners when it comes to captive maintenance of venomous snakes. Develop a safe routine and stick with it. Again don’t get discouraged because there are knowledgeable hot keepers out there who don’t want anything to do with younger herpers and or newcomers and they tend to be very belittling. Most of all be SAFE!
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RE: misrepresentation
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by Buzztail1 on January 5, 2009
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Actually, Gerald, I believe that you are misrepresenting some very good influences that exist on this forum.
"Don’t let anyone discourage you in your endeavors. Get with an experienced venomous reptile keeper who is patient, knowledgeable, and responsible. Don’t cut corners when it comes to captive maintenance of venomous snakes. Develop a safe routine and stick with it."
Is good information!
"Again don’t get discouraged because there are knowledgeable hot keepers out there who don’t want anything to do with younger herpers and or newcomers and they tend to be very belittling."
Is misrepresentative of the truth. Most knowledgeable keepers recommend doing things within the law. Almost every state that has any restrictions on venomous reptiles at all require that you be over 18 to get a permit. Under 18, almost everywhere in the United States, is not old enough to get your own insurance or be responsible for the medical bills that you might incur by making a mistake, which seems to be happening more and more frequently. Since this site promotes "responsible animal husbandry of venomous reptiles" - that would include being able to pay the bills should you incur them.
On another tack - most of those old curmudgeony knowledgeable keepers who admonish younger people to wait until they are at least 18 before keeping venomous spend an awful lot of time helping/training/tutoring/answering questions for/etc young people who are interested and show the slightest bit of respect for the people who have been doing this for a few years.
"Most of all be SAFE!"
Absolutely - totally agree.
One of the strangest things I have noticed over the years administering this site - with maturity one loses the belief that the rest of the world must be jealous of them. I would not trade my life for that of a single soul on the planet - no matter how wonderful they think they are.
I do agree - keep at it. I did! Study, learn everything that you can, hunt down a mentor, get every edge that you can. That horrible moment when you stare down at that little pinprick of blood is way too late to wish that you had learned just a little bit more.
R/
Karl
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RE: misrepresentation
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by Cro on January 5, 2009
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On the statement "Since this site promotes responsible animal husbandry of venomous reptiles - that would include being able to pay the bills should you incur them."
I think that I would look at this a little bit different.
If a 16 year old gets a drivers liscense, and is let out on the roads to drive, he most likely does not have the ability to pay the bills should he incur them in an accident. And a 5000 pound automobile has the potential to do far more damage, to far more people and property, than any snake bite could. However, we still let the teen drive, WITH the permission of the parent. The parent signs off on him getting a liscense, and assumes a lot of the responisbility of the potential cost of damages the kid might cause in the process of driving. We consider letting a teen drive a responsible action, (although many would question that, LOL).
We also see parents allowing kids to own things like hunting rifles. A kid can not go into a gun store and buy one himself. A parent has to take the responsibility in signing off on that, and in doing so, asssumes a legal responsibility concerning the actions of that kid with that gun. Do we consider this to be responsible parenting ? Quite often yes.
I find a simialr senario in a parent who Signs off on a kid keeping a venomous snake, IF and ONLY IF the parent knows the potential health and monitary risks that they are signing off on. They would have to take into account the maturity of the kid, and the amount of potential risk, and hopefully, wether the kid had recieved mentoring, and had excape proof cages, the availability of anti venom, etc, usw. I know that many parents might not be informed on the potential danger a venomous snake can pose, however, I think that a lot of parents do know the risk.
So, I personally feel that an informed parents can meet the SHHS rule #3 that states: "To encourage responsible animal husbandry by venomous reptile keepers," if that parent knows what risks he is taking on in allowing his under age 18 year old to own a venomous snake.
I just do not think that the ability to pay for ones actions should be the point on which we base the ability to keep venomous snakes. If that were the main criterion, many, many of the adult keepers here should also be not allowed to keep venomous snakes, becaue many of them also do not have the ability to pay a $60,000.00 hospital bill.
Anyway, just a bit of a different view on that topic.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: misrepresentation
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by Buzztail1 on January 6, 2009
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I agree with all of that, John.
However, for that 16 year-old to be able to drive, he has to specifically be named on an insurance policy. Some folks buy an individual policy for their child (very expensive), some add their child to their own policy (somewhat more reasonable), and still others make their child pay for the additional cost of the insurance. Either way they go about it, the price of insuring a teenager to drive is, for the most part, very high.
Right up until they hit the magic age of 25!
Funny thing about that magic age.
It is beyond the age where anything else in the country considers folks to be adults. It is actually the age where the insurance companies have decided that young males become socially mature enough to stop doing stupid things with cars - like racing, chirping their tires, etc. I believe that the decision to use 25 as the magic line is based on statistics concerning crashes etc involving insurance company money.
I agree with what you said about parents giving permission if they know what all is involved. Unfortunately, that is not always the case. I truly have absolutely no desire to try to parent someone else's child. I lived through my own three teenagers needing car insurance. I just want people to be safe.
To be fair, irresponsible actions and immaturity, at least as displayed at this site, have not been totally dependant on age. There are an incredible number of adults at this site that have displayed their fair share of stupidity. The main difference is that if a 40 year old guy gets bit while free-handling his Timber Rattlesnake - he pays. If a teenager doing the same thing gets bit - who pays?
I don't think this "hobby" should be about the money but you should be able to financially be responsible for your animals - food, safe caging, proper tools, etc. It, likewise, shouldn't be about age but you should be able to be responsible for your own actions and mistakes. I didn't make that magic age 18 or 21 or anything else. Some nitwhit in Washington did.
I believe it comes down to personal responsibility regardless of age.
Unfortunately, we see that less and less every day.
R/
Karl
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RE: misrepresentation
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by Cro on January 6, 2009
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Speaking of those "magic" ages, I can remember back when I was in High School and at age 18 could legally buy beer here in Georgia. Later, they raised the age to 21. Anybody else here old enough to remember that ?
Now, we have folks who run colleges pushing the Legislature to lower the age back to 18 so that college students can drink at the various food establishments and football games in the college towns. They claim that is will decrease the problem of underage drinking, and create a better situation, as law enforcement folks will not have to monitor the ages of the college students in those establishments ! And I am sure it will somehow increase the revenues to the colleges.
What those college administrators fail to remember though, is that a lot of High School students reach age 18 in their senior year. And you know that many of those 18 year olds would readilly buy beer for their 15 and 16 year old High School friends. That is something that we sure don't need.
The flip side of that though, is that someone can join the Military in this Country at age 18. That is a very responsible action. I think that someone age 18 who can go off to fight in a war, is responisble enough to be able to drink a beer at age 18, and would be far less likely to abuse that right, than a 18 year old college student in some fraternity. I have actually seen beer dispensers in some Military dining halls, right next to the cola and ice tea dispensers. And no one was there monitoring the ages of who used them.
It is difficult when you start considering "magic" ages, as it really all comes down to individual responsibility.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: misrepresentation
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by AquaHerp on January 7, 2009
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Jon,
I can't say that I remeber that. However, I don't remember a lot of things that have beer in the equation. :)
DH
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