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New Names for Agkistrodon ?????????
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by Cro on January 21, 2009
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Most of you probably remember a few months back I posted a article by Timothy J. Guiher, and Frank T. Burbrink, titled "Demographic and phylogeographic histories of two venomous North American
snakes of the genus Agkistrodon."
It is available at:
http://www.cnah.org/pdf_files/1024.pdf
The research used mDNA to look at the North American Agkistrodon populations, and found strong evidence to do a major overhaul of how we know them now.
It would have combined the Eastern and Western Cottonmouths into one population, and the Florida Cottonmouth into a second population.
It would have also combined the Northern and Southern Copperheads into one population, and would have combined the Osage and Broad Band Copperheads into another population, and would also have a far Western population of Copperhead.
We have speculated about what these new populations might be named, and what the Scientific Name would be for them. Others have been doing the same type of speculation. One of those folks is Dr. Joseph Collins, of the University of Kansas, and the founder of the CNAH.
Dr. Collins has speculated what the new names might be, based on the original names the animals had, and nomenclatural rules. He has published a list of "What Might" be the new names. Remember, that this is just a suggestion on his part, and more nuclear DNA work needs to be done, followed by peer review, after publication. There may be many others who do not agree with Dr. Collins, however, they might agree.
Anyway, I am listing Dr. Collin's proposed new names for the Agkistrodon below, just to keep folks here updated of the possibility. DO NOT start using these as the new names, as this is far from final yet. Just view these as POSSIBLE names that might possibly happen in the future.
Eastern Copperhead - Agkistrodon contortrix
Midland Copperhead - Agkistrodon austrinus
Western Copperhead - Agkistron laticinctus
Northern Cottonmouth - Agkistrodon piscivorus
Southern Cottonmouth - Agkistrodon conanti
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: New Names for Agkistrodon ?????????
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by FSB on January 22, 2009
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The common names seem to propose the complete reverse of what we have now: northern and southern cottonmouths instead of copperheads, and eastern/western copperheads instead of cottonmouths (which is about as confusing as this sentence). And why "austrinus?" Does that have to do with the constellation, Piscis austrinus? Would that replace phaeogaster?
As I've noted previously, it is a wonderful thing indeed that we are now able to establish actual phylogenetic relationships based upon DNA, and that this information should be duly noted and assimilated into the brain stem of every zoologist and student. We've certainly come far from the days when the world's leading anatomist (Sir Richard Owen, Darwin's fiercest critic) was tossing ground sloth bones in with a turtle skull and calling it a lizard.
But I think this one is going to run up against a lot of resistance, if only because copperheads and cottonmouths are such well-known, common animals. The reordering of lesser-known groups, such as Atractaspidids or Bolyerids might cause much less of a stir, but this is almost akin to changing the formula of Coke.
Cladistics is a fascinating field, and furthers the ideal of objectivity since it groups organisms based upon hard empirical data rather than more-or-less subjective appearances, but it's on a huge collision course with traditional taxonomy.
For dealing with everyday living animals, there is still a great deal of practical value to be had from taking gross appearances into account. We naturally tend to discriminate between things based upon visual similarities or differences - a main reason certain species or subspecies are more highly prized by collectors than others. Their phylogenetic identity, however useful it is to know, is just not apparent to the naked eye. I can't look at a northern copperhead and pretend not to see spots.
And I have a hard time saying, reading or hearing "timber" when I'm looking at an obvious canebrake, partly because I just don't want to. I have always been fond of the term "canebrake" which is so evocative of its sub-tropical Southern haunts.
And how will it work with the cottonmouths? Will the present Florida cottonmouth be the southern form entirely (conanti), and the eastern and western grouped together as "northern?" It seems strange to call a snake found in Louisiana or SE Texas "northern" anything.
Just sayin that such efforts are likely to be met with some very real obstacles... just look how long it has taken us to finally adopt the metric system, ha-ha.
I feel sure that most of us here are never going to stop distinguishing between northern and southern copperheads - nor should we!
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RE: New Names for Agkistrodon ?????????
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by ALA_snake33 on January 22, 2009
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I do like the names that Collins chose but, its as you said John, these names are still not the end with the powers that be still having the last say so.
I would like to see the former Florida Cottonmouth retain its association to Roger Conant.
In my opinion this should be honored due to the work that Conant put into the research of Agkistrodon's.
Just my Two Cents
Be Safe Ya'll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: New Names for Agkistrodon ?????????
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by Cro on January 22, 2009
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I am really hoping that Wolfgang W. will offer his opinion about the research, and the validity of these names proposed by Dr. Collins.
I agree that this change will go the same way of the timber vs canebrake debates, and not easily be accepted by many folks.
Sometimes, perhaps, it is better to leave things alone.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: New Names for Agkistrodon ?????????
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by FSB on January 22, 2009
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I must admit, a bit sheepish now after firing off a reply so fast, that Al has the right idea... read the paper first. Good coffee this mornin...
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RE: New Names for Agkistrodon ?????????
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by Cro on January 22, 2009
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I kind of figgured everyone had read the research paper back when I first posted it.
Beter late than never, LOL.
I will say that they do present a strong case for the proposed changes.
I also wonder why he picked "austrinus," and also wondered if it was related to the constellation, Piscis austrinus?
Did a bit of research on that one, and found this:
Agkistrodon mokeson austrinus Gloyd and Conant, 1943
Apparently Gloyd and Conant were involved with it, and it was found to be not valid as it was considered a junior synonym at the time. That snake became Agkistrodon contortrix contortrix.
This goes back to nomenclatural rules that I mentioned, where they go back in history to previous names. Sure wish I had the full publication from back then.
It also reminds us that all of these shocking proposed new names, are replacing names that were probably shocking new names themselves not all that long ago.
If you go through the ITIS database, you will find that the Copperheads and Cottonmouths have had many different Scientific Names over the years, and this is just a continuing process.
Best Regards
John Z
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: New Names for Agkistrodon ?????????
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by Cro on January 22, 2009
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Here is an example of how the taxonomist have changed the name of copperheads since Linnaeus first put it into the Genus Boa back in 1766 !
Boa contortrix - Linnaeus, 1766
Scytale contortrix - Sonnini & Latreille, 1801
Scytale Cupreus - Rafinesque, 1818
Scytale cupreus - Say, 1819
Tisiphone cuprea - Fitzinger, 1826
[Cenchris] marmorata - F. Boie, 1827
Acontias atro-fuscus - Troost, 1836
[Toxicophis atro-fuscus] - Troost, 1836
T[rigonocephalus]. cenchris - Schlegel, 1837
Trigonocephalus Contortrix - Holbrook, 1838
Trigonocephalus atro-fuscus - Holbrook, 1842
Cenchris contortrix - Gray, 1842
Cenchris atrofuscus - Gray, 1849
Agkistrodon contortrix - Baird & Girard, 1853
T[rigonocephalus]. histrionicus - A.M.C. Duméril, 1853
Ancistrodon contortrix - Baird, 1854
Agkistrodon contorting - Abbott, 1869
Ancistrodon atrofuscus - Cope, 1875
Agkistrodon atrofuscus - Yarrow, 1882
[Ancistrodon contortrix] Var. atrofuscus - Garman, 1884
Ancistrodon contortrix - Boulenger, 1896
Agkistrodon contortirix - Keim, 1914
Agkistrodon mokasen cupreus - Gloyd & Conant, 1938
Agkistrodon contortrix contortrix - Klauber, 1948
Ancistrodon contortrix contortrix - Schmidt, 1953[1]
And here is the taxonomic history of Cottonmouths:
Vipera aquatica - Catesby, 1743
Crot[alus]. Piscivorus - Lacépède, 1789
C[rotalus]. Aquaticus - Bonnaterre, 1790
Scytale piscivora - Sonnini & Latreille, 1801
Coluber Aquaticus - Shaw, 1802
Coluber Tisiphone - Shaw, 1802
Scytale piscivorus - Daudin, 1803
[Coluber (Natrix)] piscivorus - Merrem, 1820
Colub[er]. tisiphone - Cuvier, 1829
Scytale piscivorus - Harlan, 1835
Trigonocephalus piscivorus - Holbrook, 1838
Cenchris piscivorus - Gray, 1842
Toxicophis piscivorus - Baird & Girard, 1853
Toxicophis pugnax - Baird & Girard, 1853
Trigonocephalus tisiphone - Duméril, Bibron & Duméril, 1854
A[ncistrodon]. piscivorus - Cope, 1860
A[ncistrodon]. pugnax - Cope, 1860
T[rigonocephalus]. piscivorus var. pugnax - Jan, 1863
Vipera Cench[ris]. Piscivorus - Higgins, 1873
Ancistrodon piscivorus Lacépède, ssp. piscivorus - Cope, 1875
Ancistrodon piscivorus Lacépède, ssp. pugnax - Cope, 1875
Ancistrodon piscivorus piscivorus - Yarrow, 1882
Ancistrodon piscivorus pugnax - Yarrow, 1882
[Ancistrodon piscivorus] Var. pugnax - Garman, 1884
Agkistrodon piscivorus - Garman, 1890
Ancistrodon piscivorus - Boulenger, 1896
Agkistrodon piscivorus piscivorus - Gloyd & Conant, 1943
Ancistrodon piscivorus piscivorus - Schmidt, 1953
Agkistrodon piscivorus laurae - Stewart, 1974
Agkistrodon piscivorus - Gloyd & Conant, 1990[1]
I love that first one, "Vipera aquatica" - what a great Scientific Name for a Cottonmouth !
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: New Names for Agkistrodon ?????????
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by pictigaster1 on January 22, 2009
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I have read the paper and change is comeing soon.I am at a loss if the western race is not pictigaster.Mabie a geographical variant.Dem damn molecular biologists messin wit da game.
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RE: New Names for Agkistrodon ?????????
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by FSB on January 23, 2009
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John, those lists are amazing and very elucidating... I really liked Vipera aquatica too. And just think... they used to be Trigonocephalus! I remember being confused by seeing Ancistrodon in a few books as a kid... that must have been due to Schmidt's name in 1953.
Just goes to show - a copperhead by any other name...
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