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nisk question
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by Katz on January 25, 2009
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How do snakes devour their dinner? Do they swallow, or do they crawl over the tid-bit? Can snakes swallow as we (humans) think of it, or ?? Additionally, why isn't the venom used to dis-empower their dinner "entrees" poisonous to them as well?
I appreciate your patience and kind comments dealing with my often-times naive curiousty about these fascinating creatures! Many thanks, katz =^..^=
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RE: nisk question
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by LadyBloodRose on January 25, 2009
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I would have to say that they do swallow their prey similar to how we do the diffrence though is that the muscles of the throat/neck slowly work they prey item down as their entire body is essentialy one big muscle even for those who use venom to kill their prey.
Venom itself not only kills the prey but beginns the disgestion process much like with our saliva when we chew begins to break down food since they don't exactly excrete saliva themselves. The ensymes simply help to break the food down.
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RE: nisk question
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by Jahon on January 25, 2009
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"Additionally, why isn't the venom used to dis-empower their dinner "entrees" poisonous to them as well?"
Venom and poison are not the same thing. Venom can only do damage when it is injected into the blood stream, poison does damage when it is ingested.
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RE: nisk question
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by tigers9 on January 25, 2009
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<<Venom can only do damage when it is injected into the blood stream, poison does damage when it is ingested. >>
Yes, correct, that is why if you get bitten by a venomous snake and somebody sucks your wound, they don't get sick. Snake venoms are full of proteins, which are broken down in our digestive track before they r absorbed into our bodies.
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RE: nisk question
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by Crotalusssp on January 26, 2009
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Yes, correct, that is why if you get bitten by a venomous snake and somebody sucks your wound, they don't get sick.
There is exceptions to that rule and that practice is definitely not encouraged. ANY small wound like a bitten tongue, which we have all done at some point, could lead to an envenomation. Also realize that any blood born disease such as hepatitis can be transmitted in this fashion. I might be mistaken here and maybe someone can correct me, but I believe some members of the Elapidae family have venom that will not digest in the stomach and will cause an evenomation also.
Charles
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RE: nisk question
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by Cro on January 26, 2009
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Yep, venom can also be absorbed through tooth cavities.
Charles is also correct that some Elapid venoms are not brokend down quickly enough to prevent absorption into the blood stream.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: nisk question
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by FSB on January 26, 2009
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Kathy, I think it's wonderful that you have such an interest in snakes and a high regard for them, and yet aren't a "snake person" as it were. If more folks could only follow your example...
Snakes cannot chew their food, so no, they do not swallow as we do. Most of them (barring ones with specialized diets such as African egg-eaters), have six rows of small, sharp,identical backward-curving teeth - one row along either side of the lower jaw (mandibles), two in the upper jaw (maxillae), and two rows in the roof of the mouth (palate). They use these teeth to draw a prey item into the mouth far enough so that the neck and body muscles can engage, and then they use those to pull and push the food down to the stomach. In a way, it does seem as if they are "crawling" the food down their gullets. Some venomous snakes, such as the African rhinoceros vipers, employ their fangs in swallowing, others do not.
Snakes have a truly amazing network of muscles and a very flexible rib cage that can expand impressively to accommodate prey items much larger than the diameter of the snake (though it isn't a good idea to test this ability in captivity). One very interesting adaptation that makes it possible for a snake to breathe while its mouth and throat are entirely blocked by a dead rodent is that snakes' windpipes extend into the floor of their mouths all the way to the front. If you watch closely while a snake is swallowing, you can see the little tubular windpipe extending at the front of the lower jaw as the snake breathes.
As for venom, many snakes are immune to the venom of their own or related species. I once went to pick up a large timber rattlesnake (Crotalus horridus) and found that the seller had packed it with a small eastern cottonmouth (Agkistrodon piscivorous), which had bitten the rattlesnake. I was a bit annoyed, but the rattlesnake suffered no ill effects. I have also seen copperheads bloody one another during feeding mishaps with no ill effects.
We used to believe that snake venom was simply modified saliva, but recent molecular research has shown that the various proteins in venom were actually "recruited" from various other body tissues, including the pancreas and brain, long ago, before most of the modern snake families even arose. Venom is perhaps the most formidable and successful bio-weapon ever developed, but it would have been a useless adaptation indeed if it also affected its owner, like a gun that backfired or blew up every time you tried to use it.
There are of course venomous snakes that prey upon other snakes, such as King cobras (Ophiophagus hannah), kraits (Bungarus) and coral snakes (Micrurus), and all three of these have strongly neurotoxic (nerve-affecting) rather than hemotoxic (blood-affecting) venom, which is much more effective against reptiles with their less-efficient circulatory systems.
While there are indeed pit vipers with neurotoxic components in their venom, and which include lizards, fish and frogs in their diets, the vast majority feed on warm-blooded prey and none can be considered full-fledged dedicated snake-eaters on the order of the above-named species.
Incidentally, Charles is correct - sucking the wound should be left to the guys in the cowboy (or vampire)movies, and I'd also be a lot more concerned about blood-borne diseases than being envenomed. Yuk.
By the way, can you please tell me what a "nisk question" is? I know it's some kind of typo, and I'm not trying to be smart... I just can't figure it out.
All the best-
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by tigers9 on January 26, 2009
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I am talking about ideal situations, aka, venom versus poison on unbroken skin and mucous membranes, we could do hypothetical scenarios forever, for example:
Venomous keeping is relatively safe unless you insist on kissing your spitting cobra Good Night every nite;-)
Z
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RE: nisk question
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by tigers9 on January 26, 2009
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Now I am truly curious: How many people died or got seriosuly sick (aka needing medical treatment) after sucking snake venom?
I am interested in real data not the hypothethical scenario.
Z
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by Crotalusssp on January 26, 2009
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The story of the person getting hepatitis was told by Chris Harper at the Columbia Fall show. The person also cut the would to encourage bleeding and manage to cut into a vein if I remember correctly. I am not sure if anyone would have actual data, but it is possible.
Charles
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