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How does your ownership help/enrich your community
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by CharlieO on February 13, 2009
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I'm sure some have read my discussion with Z (a thread I enjoyed having with you Z). In the vein of our thread and the immediately preceding thread, I'd like to get some feedback on how private ownership of venomous assists or otherwise enriches society at-large.
Some things come to my mind immediately...
1)Knowledge on proper snakebite protocols. I know some of you routinely assist the medical community with difficult snakebite cases.
2) Snake Removal services.
Again, something I've learned sice visiting here,
3) Educational Resources.
Again I've learned that many of you give talks, loan animals, etc. in a effort to educate others.
Something I can state as a non-keeper is that I knew about none of these prior to joining this website.
I personally believe that if many of you went on the offensive and starting publicizing these sorts of benefits *before* the AR folks come to town, that the odds of defeating them will go waay up. It's alwas better to be the one on offense that to always be on the defensive.
If we can put together a manifesto of sorts, similar to the way AR folks have done, perhaps there is a better chance of beating them. In that vein, I would really like to hear other thoughts on how private ownership is a benefit to the local community and society as a whole.
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RE: How does your ownership help/enrich your commu
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by brandonsthaman on February 13, 2009
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The first thing that comes to my mind is propagation of endangered or threatened animals...
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RE: How does your ownership help/enrich your commu
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by FLherp on February 13, 2009
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Does society have to benefit from all hobbies or activities in which I choose to participate? How does society benefit from autograph collecting, gardening, stamp or coin collecting, skydiving, diving, etc. ? Perhaps the individual benefits from these activities when pursued as a hobby, but I cannot see an overarching societal benefit to these activities that does not stretch the bounds of reason.
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RE: How does your ownership help/enrich your commu
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by CharlieO on February 13, 2009
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Not at all FL...but then again, those hobbies aren't under constant attack. I look at this as providing others with ammunition to take the fight to the AR folks. You community will do a whole lot more on your behalf if you convince others that it is to their benefit to continue permitting the legal keeping your animals than if you simply claim the AR folks are lying and present a bunch of statistics. People want something they can relate to...if you can get present them with a reason to *want* to help you, yo've got a better chance of winning their support.
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RE: How does your ownership help/enrich your commu
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by mac142 on February 13, 2009
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Mr. Otstot, I believe that there are many benefits to private ownership of venomous.
1. The state revenue from the sales tax of both the animals and the equipment used to handle,house, and maintain these animals is revenue for the state. Creating revenue is better than spending tax payer dollars to combat the illegal trafficking and keeping of venomous.
2. The breeders and the manufacturers of venomous related products create jobs. Jobs for Joe, Jill, Jack and Mary that are paying for their home, their car, their food, and their children to go to collage and become herpetologists: )
3. If a permit system were implemented and required the person applying for the permit to be a registered voter of that state more people may register to vote and keep their RIGHT to the pursuit of happiness. This would also require the applicant to be of voting age and again more revenue for the state.
4. Psychologically I am a happier person when I am around reptiles. They make my mind work out of its ordinary day to day state. If I am happy and go to the gas station where the attendant is having a bad day and I complement her beautiful eyes. Now she has a good day and so on. Ok maybe It doesn’t work like that all the time but it could happen: )
I don’t know if you have ever heard of USARK. Mr. Andrew Wyatt is the president of this organization and their website is http://www.usark.org/index.php This organization is working for the reptile community as a whole. I would recommend becoming a member.
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RE: How does your ownership help/enrich your commu
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by Buzztail1 on February 13, 2009
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I am not sure how you would search it but for years I wrote articles for the SHHS newsletter urging people to become involved in their community with regards to their venomous keeping hobby.
1. I give free presentations to boy scout/cub scout groups on recognition of native venomous species.
2. I give free presentations to all grades of local public schools on native venomous snake recognition.
3. I give free presentations to local fire department, emergency room, urgent care facility personnel on native venomous snake recognition and initial bite indications/symptoms. I have also provided free pamphlets with photographs of all the local venomous snakes to these groups.
4. I provide free snake removal within a 50 mile radius of my home (further on a case-by-case basis).
5. I provide venomous snake displays at various Earth Day, Nature Day, State/City/Town/County Fairs and Festivals.
You must make other people see the need for you to keep venomous snakes for them to care about it in a positive way. Educating their children and health care providers is a great way to do it.
Just my opinion about what has worked for me.
R/
Karl
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RE: How does your ownership help/enrich your commu
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by FLherp on February 13, 2009
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I do not disagree with the premise and I do think that organizations such SHHS and USARK can play a part, as well as some individuals. However, I can think of many keepers who do not wish to be bothered with anything other than maintaining and perhaps breeding their charges. Should each keeper have to justify his hobby to anyone other than his or her immediate family?
Playing Devils's advocate
brandonsdaman:
This type of propagation can be done at zoos. Do not think that this in any way belittles the abilities or contributions of private keepers, it is merely to provide the likely counter argument.
mac142:
Arguments 1 & 2 could be used to make a case for the legalization of drugs and I do not see the legalization of drugs anywhere on the horizon, particularly as many organizations private and public benefit financially from the status quo. And there are organizations that would benefit from future prohibitions.
As for 3 the income generated may not produce enough income to support the activity. There are over 500 licensed keepers in Florida. A license costs $100.00. For the sake of argument, say there are 600 Licensed keepers, so that 600 x $100.00 = $60,000.00. that is enough money to pay a one person staff a portion of a years salary and fringe benefits. It is not enough to cover the costs of inspections, enforcement personnel over an entire state for this one activity, etc. It may make better fiscal sense if you include the other licenses that are issued for wildlife and game animals, but that also stretches the personnel a bit thin.
#4 is a personal benefit - unless it is payed forward ad infinitum.
Good on you Karl. They would likely suggest that you view and photograph the animals in the field and the photos would suffice for identification and display purposes. You most certainly do not need them to provide proper first aid or bite recognition training. I hope the animals that are removed are released into the wild unharmed as you are merely assisting them to new environs.
The type of mindset you will encounter wishes to see the demise of any type of pet, animal companion, whatever. They are even opposed to research on animals in captivity (I am not talking medical research, I am talking basic research here), suggesting that all research can be performed in the field. There are many well-intentioned people who donate time and money to these organizations without considering the ramifications of their monetary support - or the potential that they are providing support to an organization that ultimately wishes to prohibit them from keeping fluffy or mittens, or enjoying a cheeseburger under the auspices of protecting animals. It is an incremental progression, it is much easier to convinve people in small increments rather than forcing the whole issue at once. The endgame remains the same. For a bit of history on the animal right smovement you may wish to read some of the books by Peter Singer - Animal Liberation (1975).
For a laugh read:
PETA fishing for sympathy for 'sea kittens'
By Misty HarrisJanuary 13, 2009
StoryPhotos ( 1 )
The People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals have launched a marketing campaign to rebrand fish as "sea kittens
Photograph by: Handout, PETAPeople for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) has launched a marketing campaign to rebrand fish as "sea kittens," a name the organization hopes will increase awareness and make the vertebrates more endearing to those who would eat them.
"A lot of people don't realize that fish are capable of feeling fear and pain, that they develop relationships with each other, and even show affection by gently rubbing against one another," says Ashley Byrne, PETA's sea kitten campaign co-ordinator. "Knowing that the fish sticks in the school cafeteria are really made out of tortured sea kittens makes most kids want to lose their lunch."
The advocacy effort, which also addresses environmental concerns about over-fishing, is the latest in a growing list of publicity campaigns by non-profits, conservationists and animal activists that treat "misunderstood" creatures — everything from cats to slugs and spiders — as if they were celebrities in need of better representation.
As a humourous entry on the sea kitten website states, "fish need to fire their PR guy—stat. Whoever was in charge of creating a positive image for fish needs to go right back to working on the Britney Spears account and leave our scaly little friends alone."
Although the youth-focused campaign has drawn snickers from critics, none of PETA's long record of animal rights victories has come without some public mockery. It was by using similar tactics that the organization strong-armed such corporate giants as McDonald's, Safeway, Wendy's, Burger King and, most recently, Canadian KFC restaurants to implement new standards of animal welfare.
On fishinghurts.com, PETA also addresses worldwide concerns about over-fishing.
According to a 2006 Canadian-led study in the journal Science, nearly one-third of all fishing stocks worldwide have declined to less than 10 per cent of their maximum observed abundance. Should depletion continue at this pace, researchers warn all stocks currently fished would collapse by 2050.
But Dalhousie biology professor Jeff Hutchings believes PETA's attempt to address the issue is "misguided" at best.
"Worldwide, we can't even reduce our fishing pressure, so the thought of eliminating fishing altogether is simply absurd," says Hutchings, chairman of the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada. "Furthermore, any positive benefits that might be realized by drawing attention to the plight of fish are, to my mind, weakened by the costs of a campaign that calls fish 'sea kittens'."
But marketing expert Allen Adamson, who has written several books on branding, believes the strategy is a savvy one in the way it appeals to children.
"Deer are often a nuisance but because of the Bambi image, they get a better ride than a lot of other animals," says Adamson, managing director of global branding firm Landor Associates. "Whatever you can do to make the cause come to life and allow people to emotionally connect to it will make (the message) more effective."
It's not just Nemo who's getting a makeover these days.
The North American CATalyst initiative, helmed by a member of the American Veterinary Medical Association, aims to "rebrand the cat . . . and give it a better identity" than its dubious stereotype as the aloof companion to "crazy cat ladies."
The U.K.'s Invertebrate Conservation Trust last year launched Love Spiders, an advocacy campaign "to persuade the public to fall in love with an animal that many people would run a mile from."
And in Canada, Edmonton bug wrangler Terry Thormin has spent the better part of the last two decades promoting respect for insects.
"We've been taught from a very early age that insects are 'creepy crawlies' — and creepy means disgusting, it means bad, it means we shouldn't love them the same way we love our cats and dogs," says Thormin, former acting curator of invertebrate zoology at the Royal Alberta Museum. "There's a real image problem with anything that doesn't have two or four legs."
PETA HITS AND MISSES
HIT: Protest campaigns such as "McCruelty," "Shameway" and "Murder King" that got major grocery stores and food service providers to implement new standards of animal welfare.
MISS: The 2003 Holocaust on Your Plate exhibition, which likened factory farming to the atrocities suffered by Jewish prisoners of concentration camps.
HIT: "I'd Rather Go Naked Than Wear Fur" campaign, whose widespread celebrity support and public resonance has helped lead top retailers and designers such as Forever 21, Ann Taylor and Polo Ralph Lauren to go fur-free.
MISS: Aggressive anti-fur attacks, including the throwing of red paint on people's fur coats, pieing fur-wearing celebrities, pelting fashion runways with rubber maggots, and tossing a dead raccoon onto the dinner table of Vogue editor Anna Wintour.
HIT: After a five-year protest against Canadian KFC restaurants, the chain agreed in 2008 to phase out suppliers known to treat poultry with cruelty and to introduce a soy-based vegetarian sandwich.
MISS: Tasteless ads that last year exploited the brutal murder of Canadian Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus to draw attention to the violence of factory farming.
I for one think that animals make us better people.
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by pictigaster1 on February 14, 2009
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PETA is a radical terrorist organization with one goal to completely separate man from animals.
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RE: How does your ownership help/enrich your commu
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by Buzztail1 on February 14, 2009
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For the medical personnel, I did use PowerPoint to show them venomous snakes. For the other groups, while pictures are nice, they do not bring home the fact that an adult pigmy rattlesnake could be completely hidden under a dropped baseball glove in the backyard. The animals that I use are either rescues from areas being developed with no no nearby acceptable release area or captive bred. I only do native venomous as that is all that is legal where I live.
R/
Karl
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RE: How does your ownership help/enrich your commu
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by pictigaster1 on February 14, 2009
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Karl what you do is vital and very important.It enriches the community with knowledge.It is also a service to those who need snake removal .At one time I did all of those things.Now I do not have the time.Tho I will go to remove a snake at no cost.I will also loan a snake for education.I live just outside of town in town to many laws come in to play.At this point I just want to enjoy my critters .My friend has a excellent display in town that covers all of the other stuff schools fire police.One more statement, a picture ,a child wont remember but a live snake will stay in that childs mind long in to adulthood no substitute for the real deal.We need more people like you to do this,and I commend you for it.But it should not be a requirement to be part a of this hobby.
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