Yikes, yikes, yikes, Naja nuked! - Experts Forum at VenomousReptiles.org

RE: Yikes, yikes, yikes, Naja nuked!	Reply
by BGF on March 29, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
One of the many mysterious things about this bird-cage liner is his citation of two of my 2003 papers that have absolutely no relevance to the organismal taxonomical rankings of Naja species. As with the rattlesnake 'paper' he simply drew circles around different clades in trees in works by real scientists, and then gave them names. Wolfgang's 2007 paper already considered the higher order taxonomy of cobras and quite rightly lumped them into a single genus. Not only does it reflect the evolutionary history of the snakes but, perhaps even more important, prevents clinical confusion regarding this medically important genus. As with the rattlesnake tripe, my irony meter exploded upon encountering the statement 'Detail has been kept to a minimum.' Truer words have rarely been uttered! I was also amused in a juvenile way by typos such as 'The centre for evolution of the True Cobras'. Sounds like a cool institution, I would love to get a job there... ummmmm... errr... unless he ment CENTER. So yet again, one that we can thankfully ignore. Cheers Bryan

RE: Yikes, yikes, yikes, Naja nuked!	Reply
by viper007 on March 29, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Well it seems on the surface that Wellsus may be a synonym. Hoser may have got the name part wrong. But that isn't the full story. After all we can all use the priority name instead, with the Hoser split still intact. BGF's post seems to be full of holes in the context of the Hoser stuff. I read that there's a typo or two. I understand that the word center/centre is spelt differently by the brits and the yanks and either way lacks taxonomic significance. He could have spelt it centar! In terms of the African Cobras, BGF wrote on Kingsnake this year that "They are not Naja". So on the surface at least, he agrees with the Hoser premise that they are in fact different, even if he now prefers to lump them into a single genus. The claim about medical benefits of lumping are I think questionable. In Australia in the 1960's (or thereabouts), Worrell split Copperheads from Tiger snakes (one genus to two) in his own self-published journal. There was resistance to the change, but it is now generally accepted. I haven't seen Copperheads called Notechis for decades. Both groups have the same anti-venom and the name change hasn't made life any harder for the doctors or patients. Then there's the spitter cobras. Did Hoser get this name right and are they a valid group worthy of being named on their own as a genus? Any views here?

RE: Yikes, yikes, yikes, Naja nuked!	Reply
by BGF on March 29, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
>They are not Naja That statement was in the context of Naja being split by Boulengerina. That is the key. No one is disputing they are different but rather whether the genus should be split or broadened to be inclusive. This is a philosophical issue. However, Hoser using crayons to draw circles around parts of other people's work is not research.

RE: Yikes, yikes, yikes, Naja nuked!	Reply
by stopgetinpopped on March 29, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Hey Viper...err Hoserensis I should say...how about filling out your profile? It's required for every other poster on this forum...why not you? Sign your name, quit bein an internet expert and put your name to the quotient eh?" The clinical issue here is what is very important... What antivenom do you convince the Docs to give to the Naja group when it is split up into the Hoser group? T-

RE: Yikes, yikes, yikes, Naja nuked!	Reply
by CAISSACA on March 30, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
BGF, Here's another quote from Hoser, to blow your replacement irony meter (from http://venomlist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24325&pid=274673&st=20&#entry274673): "...That's why I have used some horrible Wells and Wellington names - simply because they are correct and not because of a liking of the names. Ditto for Cobras you've named." Cheers, WW

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