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RE: i hope they throw the book at this kid
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by puffadder7 on May 21, 2009
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you could be right john, they very well could have mistreated the animals, but ofcourse they will not put that on tv, i dont think that david weathers is doing the hobby any favors either, arin
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RE: i hope they throw the book at this kid
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by Adamanteus70 on May 22, 2009
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Once again, saying things behind someones back is not the same as to their face. David is a good friend of mine, so I will forward him this link so he can defend himself if he so decides to. This whole incident had absolutely nothing to do with him, and should not be attached to his name. This whole finger pointing BS is wrong when you drag people into it who are not connected. And just for sake of argueing, how do you know the snakes were abandoned or such in California? Unless you were there, it is pure speculation. I happen to know they were purchased by a reptile dealer. Now are we going to slam reptile dealers too? you cannot be two faced when you attend and support such events that dealers attend or you sell reptiles at also...now can you? What next? Drag every showman into it that ever handled snakes or used them in a show? That's alot of well respected historical people, like Haast and Allen, did they make this kid do this too? Jesus Christ. The people to blame is him and his parents, their the ones who raised him.
I just don't like the slander statements on here when the person has nothing to do with it peroid. Trash the guy who did it and don't get so far off track. Damn.
Paul
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RE: i hope they throw the book at this kid
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by Cro on May 22, 2009
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Paul, I think you are over reacting a bit. First of all, no one mentioned David Weathers in the thread until you brought him up. As far as Wild Boyz, I believe there are a number of them in that group, including Weathers. I know you are friends with David, and that is fine. Lots of folks here are friends with him.
I have not mentioned his name in this thread until now. All I said was Wild Boyz.
I wondered what happened to the snakes that were shipped to California. That is why I brought it up. It is good to know that a dealer purchased them, perhaps some of them will go to good homes as pets for kids, where they will serve a good, educational purpose.
I can see the ratsnakes making good pets and being sold, however, it is hard to see all the water snakes finding good homes. I still question the romoval of that many snakes from the wild just for a photo shoot. With modern film editing techniques, most likely they could have taken ten or twelve snakes and made it look like the pool was full of snakes.
As far as Reptile Dealers, I am against taking large numbers of snakes from the wild to sell at Reptile Shows, or to use in a TV commercial, then make their way to a dealer. We see too many folks with tons of newly caught snakes at the Columbia Show. I much prefer seeing captive born and raised snakes being sold for pets. As far as me selling snakes at reptile shows, as far as I know, I have never sold a wild caught snake. I re-sold two dusky pygmy rattlesnakes that I purchased from you, and you told me they captive born. I had Daniel Duff's rattlesnakes on my table, as a favor to him, and none sold. They were all captive born. I had Phillips canebrake rattlesnake on my table, and it was captive born from Billy Allbright.
If you want to bring David Weathers here, not a problem. He can tell us why he thinks it is OK to remove 300 snakes from the wild to make money shooting a TV commercial. I would like to hear the justification for that. David is a showman, and some of the things he does on film with some of his cobras like that king appear reckless. I am sure the snake is a venomoid, however, it is still freehandling, and it is seen by kids. I think that sets a bad example, and I do not think that it helps the reptile hobby.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: i hope they throw the book at this kid
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by Adamanteus70 on May 22, 2009
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John, Arin brought his name up, not me.
You absolutely have to have the facts before saying anything.
The snakes used in that filming were purchased by David, through dealers and the internet. Some of those snakes were Boa constrictors as well. They were not all ratsnakes and water snakes. Those snakes were purchased and grouped together, they were not collected by David.
The King Cobra is not a venomoid. It is simply an act of training and trust between two creatures. Many other examples of this type of show include alligators and crocodiles that allow trainers to kiss them on the snout or handle them in educational shows in parks and attractions. It is not a brainwashing cult that makes every young person go out and do this. However people do things that are not intellegent, but they are held accountable by their own actions, and have free will and mind. Just because you see it does not mean you are forced to do it.
We celebrate Grace Olive Wiley here on this web site and feature her picture on the main page from time to time. Yet she did the same thing that David is doing with the cobras and the free handling. How is this different?
I am not over reacting, just calling out the false accusations and statements made here before it gets out of hand and turns into a witch hunt.
Paul
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RE: i hope they throw the book at this kid
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by Cro on May 22, 2009
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Paul, I never said that David collected the snakes, and I know that he purchased them from several sources. And yes, some were boas. But a lot of them were also wild caught racers, ratsnakes, and watersnake. Having a basketball nut jump over the pool full of "dangerous" snakes further reinforces the publics view that snakes are dangerous.
If the king cobra is not a venomoid, then that is even worse. If you watch videos like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC2DBiQE4fE
you will again see dangerous reptile handling. Sure, it is David's choice to want to show off with venomous snakes. And kids that mimick him are not forced to do so, however, it is a form of hero worship, and some of them are more likely to want to copy their hero. However, they lack the experience of working with snakes that David has, thus they are much more likely to get bit if they mimic him. If you search the internet, you will find many, many reports of kids who have been badly injured or even killed by mimicing stunts that were done on wildboyz and jackass shows. Darwin at work I suppose ?
Overall, I do not think stunts with reptiles help the reptile hobby. Just as folks kissing crocodiles does not help the reptile hobby. It just makes reptile keepers look like nutcases and further convinces the public that something should be done about it, and makes them want to support things like HR669.
You also mentioned Ross Allen and Bill Haast. Well, I can not remember them ever dancing around with, or kissing, snakes. I do remember seeing educational venom extraction shows from them, and that venom collected went on to produce antivenin. And I do remember Ross using a inflated baloon on the end of a stick to show folks how fast rattlesnakes bite. I never saw him holding the baloon in his mouth though.
Perhaps as a scientist / educator, I fail to see the entertainment value of dancing around with venomous snakes. Guess that is my loss.
It is a insult the spirit of Grace Olive Wiley by even mentioning that dear gentle woman in the same sentance with David. How are they different you ask ? Grace would be appaled at the rough tretment that cobra is getting from David in the above video.
This is not a witch hunt against David, as he will continue working with snakes as a showman. I am not trying to get him shut down. He has as much right to do dangerous things as anyone. I just do not agree with it. And, I do have concerns for the kids who watch him, and for the reptile hobby as a whole.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: i hope they throw the book at this kid
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by puffadder7 on May 22, 2009
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i too was not bashing david, i was just saying he is not giving the hobby any props, so in farewell to david, he can do what he wants, it does not make it right, arin
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RE: i hope they throw the book at this kid
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by Adamanteus70 on May 22, 2009
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"It is a insult the spirit of Grace Olive Wiley by even mentioning that dear gentle woman in the same sentance with David."
Why? Is David that low of a person? Like trash?
Wow, I guess that if she free handled cobras that was okay because she was gentle? Is it not still free handling? Maybe there are two different definitions of free handling.
And Bill used to free handle Kings in front of the crowd and capture them with his hands only to give a show. He is not and never will be a bad person for doing so.
Ross was no friend of the snake by any means, commercially canning over 15,000 Eastern Diamondbacks a year at his processing plant in South Florida.
This whole point is falling on deaf ears I guess.
Double standards it seems for those we admire. I guess it is about time to delete this thread because it is too controversial now. Some one now has an opinion that is different than yours.
Paul
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RE: i hope they throw the book at this kid
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by theemojohnm on May 22, 2009
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I am aware, and the P.W.H.S. has already spoken to the Pittsburgh Police (My personal call), as well as the fellow in charge of the science department in that particular school.
Luckily, an aunt was able to alert me the day the indcident took place, and I am trying to do all that I can to see that this kid gets his maximum.
Actually, although I don't know who all will follow this story, as of yesterday, it has been decided that this 17 year old will be tried as an adfult in the state of PA.
It actually warmed my heart to see that somebody in this state was actually willing to stand up for the rights of the animal, as 99% of the earths population dislikes snakes it seems. Actually, I suspect it was more the response of the owner, the classes biology teacher, that probably triggered the case, NOT the rights of the animal, I am happy of the outcome none the less.
Apparently from what I have uncovered, the owner of the animal seems pretty upset, but the snake is doing well. Although, they suspect he has some broken ribs.
I may actually end up with the animal. I hope I can get in touch with the owner, and assist in a speddy recovery for the animal.
Take Care,
-John Mendrola.
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RE: i hope they throw the book at this kid
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by Cro on May 22, 2009
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Paul, not mentioning Grace Olive Wiley in the same sentance as David does not mean he is a low person, or trash. I never said those things, so do not try to put those words in my mouth.
It just means that I hold what Grace accomplished to a much higher standard than what I see David accomplishing with his snake shows. She had her faults, she was dangerous at times. That is what got her killed. However, she still deserves a tremendous amount of credit for being a woman in a field at a time when women were not in the Herpetology field. She was a Curator of a major collection of reptiles at the Brookfield Zoo back when zoos with reptile collections were just starting. After that she maintained a attraction in California that educated thousands of people about reptiles.
As far as free handling, yes, both are free handling, and both are very dangerous. However, there is a huge difference between the two. Grace tamed some animals using knowledge and love. David appears to just want to show off for a camera and short time fame on UTube or cable TV. Perhaps you are not able to see the difference, but many other people do.
I watched Bill Haast many times, and after he dumped a snake out in a outdoor milking demonstration, or, in the back room when he was milking snakes, his technique was to quickly grab the snake behind the head when he could. That worked well on cobras that could be distracted. On other snakes, like rattlesnakes, he would pin them and grab them after. Never once did I see him pick up a snake and hold it up two foot behind the neck and let it strike at his face. Never once did I see him kiss a snake. It was just the way he went about the venom extraction process. And that should not be considered Free Handling, as it was done for efficency and a deep knowledge of the behavior of the said snakes, and not to show off for a guy with a camera on UTube.
As far as Ross Allen, he probably did have a lot to do with creating a market for rattlesnakes, and that probably did cause some rattlesnake roundups to start up. He knew the gassed snakes would die, so he turned them into meat and hides after he milked them. But the venom that he extracted went into making antivenom, and it saved many lifes. Back in those days, Florida did not 19 million people living there, and a lot of areas the snakes came from were still wild area. What happened 40 or 50 years ago does not work for Florida anymore.
No double standards here Paul, just a bit of a disagreement about your friend David.
To you he can do no wrong, and you do not see his videos of free handling as hard on the snakes, or dangerous.
I, on the other hand, see his snake shows as dangerous, and possibly harmfull to the reptile hobby, and to kids who might try to copy him.
And, I do not delete threads here because folks do not agree on a topic. I think it is good to air a topic, as long as the folks do not get ugly, and continue to have usefull and educational debate.
Here is the main thing. Your friend David Weathers makes TV shows and Videos of his snake handling shows.
He puts it out there for the whole world to see, and judge.
I encourage everyone here to go to UTube and watch his snake handling videos and decied for themselves if they think the video show dangerous activity or not.
Paul, you seem to think it is a personal attack on David just because someone says something about the material HE put out there for the world to see.
I would bet though, that David would be the first to say that he does what he does, as that is who he is, and that he does not care if folks say it is dangerous or not, and he does not plan on changing things.
He does his snake shows because they bring attention to him, and that is what he wants.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: i hope they throw the book at this kid
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by Cro on May 22, 2009
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John M, Thank You for your efforts in helping out in the speaking up for the snake that this thread started out about.
It would be great if the kid who played jump rope with the snake gets a strong sentence for his animal cruelty.
Best Regards
John Z
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