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RE: Python bounty proposed
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by Buzztail1 on June 4, 2009
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John,
I think you are overlooking that it is not possible to mistake an alligator for anything else.
Picture, if it were legal to hunt alligators but not caimen. That would be the equivalent of hunting burmese pythons but not big Eastern Diamondbacks.
And yes, you must have a permit in Florida to keep any venomous snake but you do not need a permit to kill them. No native venomous snakes are protected in Florida, just as they aren't in Georgia.
One other observation that I haven't noticed being mentioned yet.
Isn't the Everglades a NATIONAL park, like the Okeefenokee? Doesn't that mean that it falls under the USFWS? If so, good luck with the proposed bounty system. Them federales do not mix well with the hunting public in park lands.
R/
Karl
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RE: Python bounty proposed
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by Cro on June 4, 2009
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Chuck and Karl. I understand what both of you are saying, and can easily see that some folks would not know a caiman from a alligator.
There are several ways around this though. Before folks can hunt alligator, they have to take a DNR educational program as part of the liscense procedure.
They are given regulations to follow and are subject to fines if they screw up. Same could be done for the python hunters. If some yahoo brings a EDB into a check station, the ranger there should write a ticket on the spot, or, at least deliver a strong tongue lashing.
Perhaps some native snakes will be killed, but, as soon as those folks turn those snakes in for a Bounty, they will Not Get Paid. So, they will quickly learn that to earn money with a Bounty System, they have to bring in the right kind of snake. Simple as that. Eliminate a Burmese python, get $$. Eliminate a ratsnake, and get NO $$, and be teased by your friends for being so stupid. Even dumb rednecks can learn if it hurts them in the wallet.
No system will ever be perfect. I am sure that some folks brought in ratsnakes to try to collect the Timber Rattlesnake Bounty, but did they get paid for those ratsnakes ? I am sure some folks brought in coyotes to collect on a Wolf Bounty, but did they get paid ? Not likely. If money is involved, and you only make money by bringing in the correct animal, they folks will learn to do that.
Lets say they put a $100.00 Bounty on a breeder size Burmese python. That is a lot of money. Do you think the redneck who brings in a huge watersnake and does not get paid will do that again ? If Pavlov can train dogs to salivate on command, we can train rednecks to bring in Burmese pythons and not harmless snakes. Specially when $$ is involved.
Lets say I am a 13 year old kid with a pellet gun, and I know that every Iguanna I bring in is worth $5.00. Am I going to waste my time shooting Anoles ?
A Bounty System will work, it has been proven with other wildlife Bounty plans in this Country over the last 400 years. Is it nice ? No.
Will it eliminate Burmese pythons in the Everglades, ?
Yes it will.
Folks will do many things for $$. Including learning what kind of animals will produce that $$, and what kind will not.
If Florida really wants to get rid of the Burmese pythons, this is the best, quickest, and cheapest way to do that.
Personally, I think it is kind of cool that Burmese pythons are there, and would leave them alone. They will not spread all that far. But if they do spread, they just might develope a taste for wild hogs and feral cats, and coyotes. Those are also invasive species.
Is it really all that different from allowing all of the other invasive species into this country, like Mexicans, Nigerians, Europeans, Arabs, Eskimos, Orientals, etc, etc, etc ???
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Python bounty proposed
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by Cro on June 5, 2009
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LOL, did not know anyone counted posts. Guess this #12.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Python bounty proposed
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by tigers9 on June 6, 2009
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http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/article1007672.ece
Time for python bounties
Published Friday, June 5, 2009
________________________________________
Floridians love to import exotic stuff, especially animals. The trouble is, we also release many of our exotic animals into the wild once they outgrow their aquariums, pens and cages.
Everglades National Park is a favorite dumping ground for unwanted exotics. Now park personnel and wildlife experts are combating the proliferation of the most dangerous species to be released in the Everglades: the Burmese python. Federal and state officials should do everything legal to eradicate this menace from the park.
Florida officials are asking the U.S. Interior Department to approve a plan to put a bounty on the Burmese python in the Glades. Gov. Charlie Crist has endorsed the plan, but federal officials are reluctant to sign on, citing concerns about how the bounty program would operate and if it would help. On the positive side, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar points out that a similar bounty effort has worked out West, and he is inclined to approve the Everglades plan.
Clearly, action needs to be taken, and the bounty appears to a viable option. Time is of the essence. Officials estimate that more 150,000 pythons are in the Glades. They grow to 19 feet to 21 feet on average, depending on their sex, lay as many as 100 eggs at a time and often live to be 25.
They endanger many native animals. Scientists have found deer and wildcats in the reptiles' stomachs, and they are said to be the first real threat to Florida's alligators. In 2007, the state passed a bill making it a crime to release pythons into the wild, but people continue to release the big snakes. It is a matter of time before humans become victims.
Federal efforts to stop the spread of the snakes have failed. It is time to try a bounty — one that is large enough to attract the best hunters.
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RE: Python bounty proposed
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by pictigaster1 on June 6, 2009
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Make the price right I would move to florida right now and get some of that quick money and only burms would suffer .
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RE: Python bounty proposed
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by Ptk on June 7, 2009
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After reading 4 pages of post I have come to several conclusions.
#1. John you have spent a great deal of time thinking about this.
#2. Government math is as accurate as it ever has been.
I am almost convinced that a hunting permit/bounty could lower current wild numbers. I would rather see it conducted by Biologists or Herpatologists (even college students) than by the general public, for reasons of accurate identification and humanity. Just because these animals are unwanted doesn't mean they deserve to die in a grievous and torturous way or by any means necessary.
The one thing a bounty will not solve is how the snakes got there to begin with. Florida needs a better system in place to discourage (take your pick as to how) people from releasing them into the wild in the first place.
Perhaps local animal shelters could accept them "no questions asked" even if it meant euthanizing them (better than being released in the wild). Some might even get adopted or given/sold to out of state zoos for education and display??
I would hate to see such amazing specimens go to waste!
PTK
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RE: Python bounty proposed
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by pitbulllady on June 7, 2009
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A lot of the south Florida animal shelters ARE accepting unwanted exotic animals, for immediate euthanasia, of course, no questions asked. That is better than what would happen to these animals if they encounter one of these hypothetical bounty hunters.
I'll repeat what I said earlier, in that this whole Burm bounty is more like the situation with wolves in the days of the "wild West". It's fueled by pure hatred of an entire group of animals, rather than by the need to obtain food or harvest a wild game species, or even collect a trophy. Deer hunters don't hunt deer because they hate deer. Alligator hunters don't even hate alligators, but mention "SNAKE" and see what kind of reaction it will get among a general cross-section of society. Of the vertebrates, probably only wolves have ever been on the receiving end of such vehement hatred by humans, compared to snakes. Read some of the stories and accounts of government wolf trappers at the turn of the 20th Century, and the horrific and deliberate torture they'd inflict upon those animals. Most of the people I know who still kill snakes, do so in a manner that will insure the animal suffers as much as possible before dying, and they do this intentionally, out of pure hate. Impose a bounty, which can be collected by anyone, and you will indeed see people who will delight in torturing these animals before bringing in something to collect that bounty, and again, who is to say that the snake(or snake parts)they bring in didn't come from someone's stolen pet, or a batch of CB Burms purchased at a reptile show out-of-state and killed and hauled down to Florida for just that purpose? Whenever you have fear and hate(two emotions which often go hand-in-hand)as the basis for killing something, "humane" goes out the door, and the very worst of human nature surfaces. We saw it with the wolf bounties, which nearly exterminated a native species, and we're seeing it now with the rash of "pit bulls" being set on fire, skinned alive, hung, bludgeoned to death with shovels, etc., by people who probably feel justified in their actions due to the atomosphere of fear and hate generated by the popular media. Whether these would-be bounty hunters bring in native snakes they've killed or not, you can bet they will use this as an opportunity to kill every snake they encounter, since by far the majority who "sign up" for this will be those who believe "the only good snake is a dead snake". If this is going to be done, then it should be biologists undertaking it and overseeing it, with strict rules on how these animals can be humanely dispatched, otherwise it's just going to be an excuse for snake-haters to exercise their brutality and cruelty on anything that crawls.
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RE: Python bounty proposed
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by Cro on June 8, 2009
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While some folks hunting Burmese pythons for a bounty might be inclined to be cruel to the snakes they find, this could be somewhat prevented by limiting what weapons are used. Fur trappers have to use a .22 to dispatch a trapped animal in a quick and humane way.
Most states that allow alligator hunting also have restrictions on how the animals are taken. Some states even have rugulations on frog hunters, that say they can not use giggs, and have to shoot the frogs between the eyes with a small caliber rifle. What I am basically saying, is that some of the problem could be solved in advance when they set up the regulations. It does not have to be like the wild west, if there is a sherriff in town.
As far as folks buying up pythons at reptile shows, and re-selling them for a bounty, this could also easily be prevented, if the bounty prices were lower for young Burmese pythons, and higher for breeder size Burmese pythons. If young pythons sell at reptile shows for $50.00 and the bounty is $50.00, then no one will be buying them up to re-sell. And just how many Burmese pythons are for sale at the average reptile show ? Perhaps ten or 12 ? On the same issue, no one will buy a $300.00 breeder Burmese python at a reptile show to collect a $100.00 bounty.
As far as further restricting how folks dispose of animals in Florida, the laws are allready there. More regulations will not help. And many Pet Shops will take in animals that folks want to give them for free.
And, as I said before, hundreds of folks did not drive hundreds of miles out into the Everglades to release their pet Burmese python. If you run the DNA on pythons coming out of the Everglades, I am still very willing to bet, you will find a couple of common ancestors. Which means that there was one or two dumpings of a bunch of surplus young at one time, or the dumping of one or two large gravid females. If the animals were not intentionally dumped, perhaps animals were released when a hurricane hit a reptile breeders business.
Best Regards
John Z
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