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RE: Burms move over, Rocks r next target
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by agkistrodude on September 14, 2009
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The Burms and African Rocks should make short work of the feral cats...and dogs for that matter.
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RE: Burms move over, Rocks r next target
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by Nakita on September 14, 2009
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Spot on with the feral cats.
We have many on our 400 acres and despite trying to control them they still show up. Our bird population has suffered, our small reptile population has suffered and our once common chipmunk sightings have all but disappeared. They are blatant killers and often leave the carcasses of their victims lying about the property.
At least the pythons are killing to survive and typically consume what they kill. I'd much rather have them than the cats!!
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RE: Burms move over, Rocks r next target
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by tigers9 on September 14, 2009
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What is egg incubation time for Burms and for Rocks?
Z
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0915/p02s01-usgn.html
Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission investigators remove an unlicensed Burmese python from a west central Florida home on Friday, near Lake Apopka, Fla. The 16 year old snake was measured at 18' long and 30" around.
GEORGE SKENE / ORLANDO SENTINEL / AP
SOURCE: FLORIDA INSTITUTE OF FOOD AND ARGRICULTURAL SCIENCES, US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY, AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY, US FISH & WILDLIFE SERVICES
Click to Enlarge
Hybrid man-eating pythons? Florida is on alert.
Scientists worry that two species of nonnative pythons now near the Everglades could breed, yielding more aggressive offspring.
By Patrik Jonsson | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
from the September 14, 2009 edition
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ATLANTA - In an case of real life imitating Hollywood, the US scientific community is increasingly concerned that two nonnative python breeds currently slithering free in south Florida could morph into a giant man-eating swamp coil.
The capture of five African rock pythons recently near an Everglades already teeming with the gentler Burmese pythons has scientists worried about so-called "hybrid vigor" – a phenomenon that occurs when interbreeding uncorks volatile recessive genes, passing traits such as aggression onto the offspring. Think Africanized bees.
The two species have interbred in captivity. While Burmese pythons aren't known to eat people in their native habitat, the African rock python, unfortunately, has been known to do just that.
The rock python "is mean right out of the egg, and they don't ever tame down," says Kenneth Krysko, a senior biologist at the Florida Museum of Natural History.
Whether African rock pythons and Burmese pythons could produce fertile offspring remains a big question. But the looming possibility of "hybrid vigor" between nonnative species means the Everglades are turning into a herpetologist's version of Dr. Frankenstein's lab.
"It's a big petri dish," says Kevin Enge, an invasive species expert with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission in Gainesville. "You keep introducing things and, yeah, you don't know what's going to turn out."
This summer, Florida began a python bounty hunt after the population of illegally introduced Burmese pythons exploded and their range expanded. So far, 18 snakes have been captured under the new hunt, which got approval from the US Department of Interior after a toddler was killed by a released python this spring.
Critics including Mr. Krysko say that the state is not doing enough to crack down on those who release snakes against the law. But Mr. Enge says the law is basically "unenforceable" since it's practically impossible to catch people in the act. Moreover, lawmakers have for years tried to ban exotics, but the rare pet industry, much of which is based out of Miami, is a powerful economic force that has so far held off efforts at import reform.
Banning exotics could also drive the trade underground and actually result in more releases as owners try to stay within the law, experts say.
A 1994 report by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection first raised alarm about an explosion of invasive species in the Sunshine State – driven by the welcome conditions of Florida's subtropical interior and Miami being one of the major import points for exotic animals to the US.
That report pointed to specific concerns about the African rock python, but doubted whether it could breed in the wild.
New evidence is throwing doubt on that analysis.
The five African pythons caught or sighted recently include a 12-foot adult specimen, a hatchling, a two-foot snake that had eaten a common grackle, a large snake that had eaten a backyard turkey, and a large pregnant female run over by a car.
The wide variety of age and size of the snakes is worrisome, and is the main reason why some scientists believe the snakes have already found their way into the national park. But trying to forecast whether the two species will breed and what the result would be is virtually impossible.
"Are the offspring meaner or more resilient in the wild? I have no idea," says Krysko.
The state has dispatched bounty hunters to the 1 square mile area where all five snakes were found. "It's definitely habitat they can populate, and I'm sure they could easily probably eventually hook up with the park," says Enge.
Whether the bounty hunters can stop the invasion or not, such targeted hunts are likely to epitomize what creature control will look like in Florida going forward, Enge says. The state is attempting to protect people and sensitive wildlife areas such as a wading bird rookeries from invasive snakes.
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RE: Burms move over, Rocks r next target
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by FLAohHerper on September 14, 2009
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I was one of the individuals who had captured one of rock pythons here,roughly a month ago. I live in W.Miami on the edge of the glades and this was about a 20 in. individual found freshly hit on the road. This is actually the second wild caught rock I have obtained,both same size,however the first one was about 2 years ago. Crazy animal world we live in here in S.Fla.
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RE: Burms move over, Rocks r next target
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by CAISSACA on September 15, 2009
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Python molurus and P. sebae are sister species and pretty closely related, so I would not be at all surprised if they could hybridise. However, the idea that this would create some kind of "super python" seems pretty unlikely. Chances are that such a hybrid would have lower fitness than either parent species, and a more likely scenario is that Afrocks and Burmese would compete, not conspire, with each other. I really doubt that P. sebae will do anything to the ecosystem or to people that Burmese pythons aren't doing already - i.e., nothing to people, generalised predation to the ecosystem.
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RE: Burms move over, Rocks r next target
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by tigers9 on September 15, 2009
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If Burms incubate eggs 60 or so days....OK, this is where I need more education. When exotic cat breeders do domestic/wild crosses, they usually use male exotic cat such as serval and domestic mother. I think domestic male might not usually want to mount wild cat.
However, gestation period for serval is about 1-2 weeks longer than for domestic cat, so when domestic cat gives birth to these wild/domestic crosses named savannah, they are naked premature and need to be bottle raised, and have tender extra care, kind of like premature human baby in incubator.
If incubation period for Burms is any different than Rock eggs, how would this scenario work out for hybrid eggs? What would happen, in cats babies are born live, just naked instead of hairy, what would happen in reptile scenario?
Z
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RE: Burms move over, Rocks r next target
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by Cro on September 15, 2009
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Zuzana,
There would probably not be much of a problem if the eggs wrre from hybrid python breeding, as the incubation times of snakes are not set in stone. Those are just general figures.
Reptile eggs that are kept warmer usually hatch faster, and those that are kept cooler usually take a bit more time.
A week or even a month extra is really not going to be a problem. The snakelings should know when they are developed enough to hatch. Perhaps that is triggered by how much of the egg sack has been absorbed by them, or other factors. But, it is not very likely that the young would be born premature, as long as the eggs maintained reasonable temperatures and humidity.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Burms move over, Rocks r next target
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by CAISSACA on September 16, 2009
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One thing is for sure: we can safely assume that they will be born naked, not hairy ;-)
Sorry, couldn't resist....
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