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Northern Copperhead questions
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by Nakita on June 19, 2010
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Today I did a removal call and ended up taking away a nice little "approximately 1 1/2ft" Northern Copperhead.
I have kept both these and Timber Rattlesnakes on and off for many years however never when I was keeping other reptiles.
I have given serious thought to keeping this little fellow to use both as an educational tool as well as enjoy its natural beauty. My concern is I am currently maintaining a colony of Gila Monsters and certainly don't want to risk their health should the Copperhead have some sort of virus or pathogen.
I obviously would quarantine the animal from my collection for several months but am still concerned about cross contamination. Do wild caught snakes typically carry any sort of virulent illnesses that could pose a serious threat to my existing animals if it is housed in the same room?
Also, my local reptile vet will not perform a fecal unless they perform an exam on the animal. The catch 22 is they won't work with venomous species. What would be the protocol to worm the snake or would it even be necessary provided the enclosure is kept pristinely clean?
As always many thanks in advance!
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RE: Northern Copperhead questions
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by Ptk on June 20, 2010
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Sounds like you need a new vet. Call around - I have never had a problem bringing a sample to the vet and having it checked. They dont even hassel me with the office visit fees, etc just for lab work. If your bringing the sample the fresher the better.
You can purchase the float solution yourself and even with most childs microscopes check yourself (I'm guessing somewhere 800xs mag or better). I am not sure you can get the solution in less than a gallon but hey might as well check the dog and cat too!!
As always a good idea to check any newly aquired several times about two weeks apart just to be safe. Especially if your feeding live rodents.
Good luck!
PTK
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RE: Northern Copperhead questions
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by Nakita on June 20, 2010
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Thanks for the reply!
The logic of the vets I have dealt with here in Va. is they don't do fecals without an examination because its illegal to dispense medication without having seen the animal. I have spoken to 3 in the past and each give the same explanation.
Still hoping for some input regarding the risks of viruses, etc. being transferred if the animal is kept in my main reptile room after quarantine.
It has already ate a F/T mouse for me with no hesitation which makes it a good candidate to add to the collection.
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RE: Northern Copperhead questions
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by CanadianSnakeMan on June 21, 2010
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PTK is right, it's quite easy to do your own fecals if you know what to look for. Most worm eggs and coccidians are visible from 100-400x magnification. To see some protazoans, you might need something up to 800-1000x.
There are airborne respiratory diseases like OPV (paramyxovirus) that can spread to the rest of your collection but I don't know how prevelant that disease is among wild caught species in the US. It's probably better to have it in another room to be safe. Make sure to have handling tools that you only use for the quarantined animals and do their cage maintainance last to avoid spreading pathognes to the rest of the group.
You can treat for parasites right away or wait for lab results and give treatments specific to the problem - there are ups and downs for each method and it's up to you.
A good treatment for most intestinal parasites is Panacur (fenbendazole) given at 100 mg/kg for 3 days then repeated in 2 weeks. If protazoans are suspected, you can add flagyl (I think it's 50 mg/kg but I don't have my references in front of me). If you give flagyl, make sure the snake is well hydrated.
Try to get a vet that doesn't want to squeeze you for the extra cash if it's not necessary!
Take care,
Luke
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RE: Northern Copperhead questions
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by Nakita on June 21, 2010
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Thanks for taking the time Luke!
I have to admit that scares the crap outta me. I was 100% sure I was going to keep him now I'm not so sure.
In my mind I'm trying to convince myself that it is probably less likely to have a serious pathogen due to not being held in unsanitary conditions nor been exposed to animals outside its geographical area.
I guess in the end we take a chance anytime we introduce an animal to our established collection regardless of whether its CB or WC.
Decisions, decisions,decisions.. LOL
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RE: Northern Copperhead questions
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by theemojohnm on June 21, 2010
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Pretty sure you're the same person fron Venom-Center, but I'll comment here too, just for the sake of having it here for folks to search for.. ::
Everything that comes into the main building here, is quarantined, whether it
is CB or WC, all in the same fashion. This includes a general parasite treatment
(Pancur, Fagyl, etc) in repeated dosages over the course of this period
(2-6 months). At this time, if it is a wild-caught specimen, it will be treated for
any external injuries or parasites (removal of ticks, treatment for mites, treatment
of abscesses).
I also will look at a few fecal smears from the animal.
(I don’t ever pay the vet to look at fecals for me, as most aren’t well-versed in reptile
parasites, pathogens, etc, to begin with ). This is pretty easy to do with a good
microscope, once you get used to what you are looking for. If you work with a
moderate-large-sized collection of animals, a microscope is a good investment.
While everyone so far has provided some good information, I would like to point out
that it is just good practice to quarantine new arrivals before introducing them into
an established collection.
If the animal looks to be in good health to you, than he probably is. The Agkistrodon
are a tough group of snakes. Still, he does most likely harbor parasite(s) of some
sort, that a general round or two of an alternating Pancur/Flagyl regimen could likely
easily eliminate. I too work with many wild-collected animals, and never have much
issue..
While it is true, some of the nastiest pathogens and viral infections are spread from
captive raised-stuff, where large groups of animals are housed close together; some wild
populations can harbor some equally nasty stuff.
That is why I strongly feel that all new additions be quarantined and treated briefly for
injury, infection, and parasites, regardless of origin, just as a preventative measure.
I would isolate him from the main collection for a while, and treat him, even once or
twice, with appropriate medication(s), monitor the temporary cage for signs of mites,
and treat accordingly if you find any. If nothing after two, three months time, I would
start considering getting a permanent cage set up for him, in the main room your
collection is housed in.
(Sterlite or Rubbermaid bins, lined with white paper towel work well as temporary,
quarantine cages, as mites are easy to spot on the paper towel. Add air holes, water
bowl, hide-box, other cages accessories, etc. Keep it simple. )
I don’t think you have much to worry about.. The Aggies are pretty resilient to parasites
and bacterial infections. Again, if he looks to be in good health to you, he probably is.
But, you can never be too careful.. A brief, and general quarantine I think, would
suffice in this case, along with a round or two of medication.
The quarantine process is over-exagerated in most cases.
I don't think you have much to worry abot
Take Care,
-John Mendrola
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RE: Northern Copperhead questions
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by Nakita on June 21, 2010
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Thats me John but I do appreciate you taking the time to post over here too.
Shows a willingness to help out which is always nice to see.
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RE: Northern Copperhead questions
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by theemojohnm on June 21, 2010
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Well I sincerely appreciate you appreciating it!
You would be surprised how many morons come by asking
questions, only to waste time and complain, when they don't
like the answer they've received..
You show a strong desire to learn, are open-minded
to input, and have the animals best interest in mind,
by trying to do things right, which too, is very nice
to see these days !
Take Care..
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