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Something I thought may be an interesting topic.
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by CrotalusAdamanteus on June 24, 2010
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Crotalids have a heat sensor in the loreal area of the face. When the sensors are wet, does the wetness interfere with their heat sensing ability?
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RE: Something I thought may be an interesting topi
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by Cro on June 25, 2010
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Very interesting topic.
One would have to ask if it is the wetness itself that would interfere with the heat sensitivity, or, the temperature differential between the snake's temperature and the temperature of the water.
Some snakes like bushmasters are known to be especially tuned to heat sensitivity, and are even known to stalk the heat of a torch being carried in the jungle.
Zoos and Serpentariums that keep those "heat seeking missiles with fangs" are known to spray water on the snakes to shut down that heat sensitivity when veterinary care is needed.
It is also known that cooler water has the most effect, and will cause the snakes heat senses to almost turn off.
And, it is known that room temperature or warmer water, which is near or at the same temperature as that of the snake, has a much reduced effect on shutting down the snakes heat senses.
So, it can probably be concluded that it is not water itself, but, the temperature differential between the water, and the temperature of the snake, that is of most importance.
However, one could also surmise that a heat sensitive pit that was filled with water might experience some interference because of the physical barrier that the water produces.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Something I thought may be an interesting topi
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by theemojohnm on June 25, 2010
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"However, one could also surmise that a heat sensitive pit that was filled with water might experience some interference because of the physical barrier that the water produces. "
That's basically my thought.. No doubt that thousands of years reptile evolution has fined-tuned the Crotalinae heat pits, and I would bet even soaked pits could still pick up on a moving heat signature, and probably still work to some extent.
If the water is above room temperature, I could see how that would throw off a heat reading. And, if the water were cool, I could easily see that impairing the ability to register much of a heat signature.
Plus, my main thought is the actual physical barrier of the water inside the pit itself, throwing off the heat-sensing ability much more.
Although, I think that would have to be an extremely-saturated snake, maybe even soaked for some time.. If you look at most Crotes heads, you will notice that they are shaped quite strategically. It would be hard to completely 'fill' a Crotalid's pits with just simply spraying, as they are positioned carefully of the head, perhaps to prevent this very problem..
Again, I probably wouldn't rely to heavily on, or believe that the spraying technique really impairs them, all that much. I am sure that unless the pit-opening itself were thoroughly water-logged, the snake would still probably have some reasonable function of it’s pits.
Look at Cottonmouths.. Obviously they don't seem too affected by wet pits. They do just fine, and spend all day in the water, while still living in pretty damp condition while on land.
The cottonmouths have evolved around that problem, and I have no doubt that the Bushmaters, in their tropical humidity, probably don't have much problem with it either..
The spraying technique may help.. But, I don't think I would rely on it too heavily..
Take Care,
-John Mendrola
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RE: Something I thought may be an interesting topi
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by Cro on June 25, 2010
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Cottonmouths came to mind for me also.
One has to wonder, if their ability to find food items like fish and frogs, is more due to detecting movement, enhanced sense of smell, or, enhanced sense of taste using the tongue and Jacobson's organ ?
Would seem that hunting while in water would make smelling or tasting prey very difficult, and the murky nature of some water would seem to cut down on the visual ability to detect prey.
Could it be that cottonmouths have the ability to detect heat differentials even when their pits are filled with water ?
Even though one would assume that a cold blooded animal like a fish or frog would be the same temperature as the water it was in, it is likely there would be some heat generated by the animal due to metabolic process of using muscles to swim. This could produce a temperature reading that would differ from the water temperature, and might be detected by the snake. Could be only a fraction of a degree difference, but that might be enough for a finely tuned pit viper.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Something I thought may be an interesting topi
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by CrotalusAdamanteus on June 25, 2010
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Basically, it depends on the temperature of the water rather than the water itself. When the water is room temp or higher, it has a increased affect.
Ya'll hit the nail on the head, so to speak, with Agkistrodon and Lachesis. Given that Piscivorus live in such sluggish areas where (as previously stated) it is murky, live off mostly ectothermic prey, ect. Maybe this is the reason that Piscivorus (and other Crotalids) swim above the water and only dive if it is a absolute nessecity.
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RE: Something I thought may be an interesting topi
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by agkistrodude on June 25, 2010
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Very cool topic. Something I haven't given much thought to over the years. All of the replies so far have been very informative, but I would say a lot comes into play. Water temp for sure, but also ambient temps, which could effect the prey item temps, such as frogs. I've wondered if under the right conditions, something like a frog might be completely invisible to a snake. And then throw in the water temp of the rain, or swamp,to the equation, the variables are endless.
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RE: Something I thought may be an interesting topi
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by theemojohnm on June 25, 2010
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John, I thought about cold-blooded prey items, too.. I figure if the Cottonmouth's evolved heat pits, while also evolving to adapt to an aquatic environment, that they do reserve some use for their heat pit's.. And water can't have too much of a detrimental effect on them..
Obviously, many things come into play.. Ambient temps, water temps, elevation, perhaps even barometric pressure..
Still, I'm not too quick to believe that water would impair them, all that much. Perhaps it might have more effect of the desert rattlesnakes, where rain isn't seen as often..?
Cool topic..
Take Care,
-J. Mendrola
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