Endangered species captive breeding questions - Experts Forum at VenomousReptiles.org

Endangered species captive breeding questions	Reply
by CanadianSnakeMan on September 29, 2011	Mail this to a friend!
I thought I'd pose a non-troll question to get the forum going again. Sistrurus catenatus is the only venomous snake in Ontario and is listed as threatened in the province. Various ex-situ intervention efforts are already underway for this species, but development in it's natural habitat and general ignorance and fear from local inhabitants keep reducing this species' numbers here. It is a long-term goal of mine to participate in one of the capitve breeding projects in the province, or even to start my own. I know a few members here have been involved in conservation efforts so I'm sure my questions will find the right people. 1. Apart from the standard venomous reptile keeper's setup, would I need any sort of special equipment to participate in a captive breeding program? 2. What measures would I need to take to preserve the genetic integrity of isolated populations from certain parts of the species' range? 2. For this species, what is the best way to release the captive hatched specimens to set them up for success in the wild? I am aware that there will also be legal issues to contend with as far as permits and so on. I am aware that I'll run into these problems, but for now my questions are strictly related to the technical side of captive breeding for re-release. Thanks

RE: Endangered species captive breeding questions	Reply
by Time on September 29, 2011	Mail this to a friend!
I think the legality issue needs to be addressed first. If Fish & Game does not allow or support a reintroduction program, it's a mute point. If they recognize and respect the zoo you work for I would hope that would help a project like this to move forward. There are quite a few issues (biological & political) when undertaking a project like this. One of the State Parks in Wisconsin did this with Sistrurus catenatus and when the locals heard about rattlesnakes being released they got upset. The program has continued but is not being promoted publicly and is kept hush hush. I'm sure a few more people will chime in that have more experience than I on this.

RE: Endangered species captive breeding questions	Reply
by CanadianSnakeMan on September 29, 2011	Mail this to a friend!
Tim, There are already other ex-situ breeding and release programs for S. catenatus (namely at the Toronto zoo), so the political will is already behind it at some level, and the MNR (our equivelant to fish and game) supports the program. I am newly established on the board of directors for Canada's first registered animal rescue charity dealing specifically with reptils, so if we can get a good proposal forward to the MNR for a captive breeding program there's a good chance they'd approve it, which is why I'd like to collect some information on how others have established things like this in the past.

RE: Endangered species captive breeding questions	Reply
by AquaHerp on September 29, 2011	Mail this to a friend!
Great thread- Contact Bob Johnson at the Toronto Zoo (I emailed you his contact info). He has been heading up a lot of the work there for years. I would think that if you can convince him of your well-intentioned offer for assistance that he may take you into the fold in some capacity. Good luck and keep us posted. DH

RE: Endangered species captive breeding questions	Reply
by CanadianSnakeMan on September 29, 2011	Mail this to a friend!
Thanks a bunch, Doug. In your experience in programs such as this, what is the average percent of released specimens that make it to breeding age? How does that number usually compare to the percentage of wild specimens reaching sexual maturity?

RE: Endangered species captive breeding questions	Reply
by AquaHerp on September 29, 2011	Mail this to a friend!
It depends on the methodology used. Most papers out there put reintroduced species at about 11% survivability. That does seem drastic. However, we need to look at it from a different viewpoint. Most of the models and studies that give us this number are from mammal reintroductions. Mammals that are reintroduced have a tougher time due to social dynamics, territoriality, imprinting and more. We see this less in lower vertebrates. The problem with determining success rates of herp reintroductions is tracking those individuals. Normally those released are quite small and thus most typical tracking devices are out of the question. So, we play the guessing game and use different formulas. We know that animals given a "head-start", that is- being held for the first year until they gain a sufficient size to take care of themselves do fare better. Sea turtles is a classic example. On the other shoe is "translocation" of animals whereas we move specimens from one area to another suitable area. Some species do quite well. Others that are more "traditional" in their habits do not. Timber and western diamondback rattlesnakes are an example. They tend to wander aimlessly and fail to fine good hibernation spots. So....where does it leave us? Overall, if the programs are done well; that is, genetics monitored, avoiding phenotypic plasticity, proper habitat studies and so on, they can be quite successful over time. It does not happen overnight, but takes years of seeding young into the area. However, even if we used an 11% survivability rate of head-started young, that is a better number than the 2-3% that most likely survive to maturity naturally. So basically, they are great programs, they just take a lot of time. We have been working on Attwaters prairie chickens for over 30 years are just now starting to see a glimmer of hope. :)

RE: Endangered species captive breeding questions	Reply
by CanadianSnakeMan on September 29, 2011	Mail this to a friend!
Doug, Thanks for your answers, but they only leave me with more questions... I hope you have time for them all! Within S. catenatus' range there are historically distinct populations that do not interbreed with each other. I understand the importance of genetic diversity to establish a viable breeding population, but would it be prudent to keep these distinct populations intact as opposed to translocating neonates? Also, with S. catenatus requiring a variety of different habitats depending on the time of year, is it likely that there would be some political will behind protecting suitable release areas, surrounding habitats, hibernacula and migration routes? With repeated use of the same hibernacula from the first year of life could the 'head start' model work for S. catenatus or do you think neonatal reintroduction after a brief period of captivity would be a better idea? When neonates are born in captivity how are they isolated from human contact? How are they taught to feed? Are they given live prey items found in their natural habitat or are they simply given the standard lab mouse fare? Also, you said you emailed me Bob Johnson's contact info but I haven't received it yet. You can also send it to my work account luke.halstead@forces.gc.ca Thanks again!

RE: Endangered species captive breeding questions	Reply
by Rob_Carmichael on October 8, 2011	Mail this to a friend!
Doug provided some outstanding information. I'm involved with eastern massasauga conservation in Illinois, and, having had numerous conversations with other wildife biologists throughout their range who are involved with this project, you'll definitely have some challenges unlike any other genera or species that have been open to bringing in the private sector. Eastern Massasauga conservation is tightly controlled but Doug gave you a great contact. Some of the initial studies being done in IL are showing that translocated animals are not faring well with this species. I can't divulge any information as it hasn't been published yet but a number of strategies are being looked at right now...we are only in our infancy in learning about this shy little rattler.

RE: Endangered species captive breeding questions	Reply
by theemojohnm on October 8, 2011	Mail this to a friend!
Can't believe I missed this thread ! We too (The P.W.H.S.) are beginning our Eastern Massasauga Conservation Program, this coming spring, which is planned to include the first captive propagation program in PA in many, many years, and the first one of this scope, magnitude, and comprehensiveness to ever be organized in the state. I have had permission from the state to keep them, and have kept them in the past, for captive breeding to supply zoological and research facilities, and educational programs. This spring, we apply for the state's Scientific Collection Permit, which allows us to do almost all of our field work. Because of the strict possession limits in PA, the Scientific Collection Permit is virtually required for any serious field study; everything from our Nerodia work, to our A. contortrix and C. horridus population surveys. Recently, we have been working with other Threatened, Candidate, and Endangered species, such as the Blanding's Turtle, The Eastern Box Turtle, and the Bog Turtle, as well. This year will be the first in several, that we should have S. c. catenatus listed on the permit. And, besides us, this will be the first time in a very long while (almost in the history of the state, to my knowledge), that S. c. catenatus has appeared on a SCP for ANY organization, zoological or otherwise. THAT IS, if all goes according to plan. Like others have mentioned, the legality issues of collecting, possessing, and reintroducing S. c. catenatus in 99.9% of it's native range, are very stringent. Not quite sure how the Canadian Wildlife Services deal with that, though. For example, in PA, there isn't a clear "application" for the state's Scientific Collection Permit, just contact information. The guidelines provided, are very vague. It is rarely difficult to get permission for our Timber and Copperhead field work, or Nerodia surveys, as the Northern Water Snake is a �common� species. But, for Threatened or Endangered species (especially S. c. catenatus), especially regarding the captive production of, and reintroduction into the wild, can be a bit of a stretch, and requires a very specific program outline. I have always done my best to go above and beyond, to satisfy the requirements of the state. This includes a VERY detailed study outline (almost as long and thorough as our final publication(s) would be!), clearly defining the objectives of the program or study, the methodology employed, ALL of the pertinent data that is to be recorded, DETAILED overview of the safety protocols employed in EVERY aspect of the program, including reintroduction of captive-produced offspring, and detailed information on, and credentials of, everyone on our team involved in the program. PA also require references for suitability of the researcher/team, and fees for zoological or commercial research ventures (there isn�t a fee for non-profit organizations, however). I will say that the guidelines and protocols for this program have been two years in the making, and there are STILL a lot of �kinks� that need to be worked out before we begin. The natural cycles and complex microhabitats of S. c. catenatus are so complex, that the protocols for captive breeding programs are so much more intricate than for just about any native species I can think of - including species like our northern Timbers, which are very complex in their seasonal cycles and dening behaviors, in their own right. Unlike with species like C. horridus, where the habitat either works or doesn�t work, there isn�t a clearly defined �suitable� or �non-suitable� habitat for S. c. catenatus. - There just seem to be small, isolated, family �niches� in the environment that are able to provide the right environment to sustain them. Wow, this is exciting; this thread made my week! And to think, I have been meaning to ask about the nature of your Massasauga program for quite a while now, Rob! I think that there is much yet to learn about their seasonal cycles, and the environmental factors that are involved in stable, wild populations. Hopefully soon, we can involve several states, and can all share information regarding what it is going to take to stabilize the existing wild populations, and keep them around for generations to come. I could go on and on about them, all night. As far as Crotalids go, I feel comfortable saying that the Eastern Massasauaga is one of, if not the most intelligent pitviper I have ever had the pleasure of working with. They are amazing, thinking and calculating, and curious and inquisitive snakes.. This is a species that I have been wanting to work on for a long time now, and finally have the means to do it. Good luck to all of you, on your projects! Through education, and captive propagation, I think within several years time, we can make a difference. No program will ever be perfect. But, if we can even improve the survival rate of introduced captive-produced animals SOME, we stand a chance. Rob, I�ll shoot you an email. Please keep me up-to-date on your progress, as you go, and as you are able to disclose information, when you can. Sadly, I have to keep most of our protocols �under wraps� too, at the present, at least until we get things rolling. Maybe a NBCE or North American Board for the Conservation of the Eastern Massasauga, is in order..? If anyone would be interested in participating in something of this nature, let me know, and I�ll make it happen! If we can involve several states, and organizations, and share information online, and possibly annual meetings, we can all benefit as a group effort, and may be able to stabilize populations across the Northeast. Good luck to everyone! Exciting stuff ! Beautiful to see this kind of discussion on this site, once again! Take Care, -John Mendrola

RE: Endangered species captive breeding questions	Reply
by CanadianSnakeMan on October 12, 2011	Mail this to a friend!
John, I like your idea of the North American Board for the Conservation of the Eastern Massasauga (NBCE) and I would be happy to sign on to it! Naturally, any plan to save S. catenatus would have to focus on preserving all of its seasonal habitats. Such a program would invariably help other species as well. I will contact Bob Johnson at the Toronto Zoo and find out what I would need to do to participate in their program. Thanks for the info everyone!

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