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long time, no see. what's the overall vibe of....
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by richardduckworth on October 25, 2011
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the community these days?
i'm scared to look in the direction of an animal here in alabama and haven't had any animals since 2008 :)
was browsing through old photos on the site and just really miss the hobby though. my 6 year old girl is old enough to understand stuff and we were talking about some animals i used to have that i posted pictures of, we played "find the snake" in the hidden snake photos section and that was cool. she's horrible at finding snakes in the wild btw lol
had the feeling a year or two ago that keeping venomous snakes was gonna be something only a few had the legal option to do very soon.
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RE: long time, no see. what's the overall vibe of.
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by Rob_Carmichael on October 26, 2011
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Hey Ricky,
I'm not too optimistic for the private sector's rights to keep hots throughout the U.S. It's only going to get more restrictive (particularly with the current president); and when things like the Ohio stuff happens, it's only another big nail on our coffin. We can spout all we want about our constitutional rights but keeping deadly snakes wasn't one of those...even though I think there should be a legal way to do it and do it responsibly because there are some great folks out there who "get it". Here in Illinois, there's an underground world of young venomous hot keepers doing it illegally. It's stuff like that which gives me virtually no hope for the future. We keep thinking and saying that government has bigger battles to fight than the exotic animal issues. Well, not any more. When public health and safety becomes an issue, like in Ohio, it'll become a very high priority and bills will be very easy to pass; almost a no brainer as they don't see things the same way we do. We've failed as a herp community to police ourselves, project a positive and professional image, to network with political powers, and, stand up for our rights in an organized an intelligent manner. Several zoos have stopped keeping venomous herps in an effort to reduce costs of having to purchase antivenin (and insurance issues as well)....this trend might continue. My facility might not be too far behind depending on how the economy goes. The private sector seems to think that every zoo is at their beckon call for A/V but that's simply not going to happen. We have too many bad apples in the industry. Though apples to oranges, if we could have come up with a system much like the sport of falconry, we probably wouldn't be in this situation today. Now my hope is that the keeping of non-venomous reptiles doesn't become threatened. That's why we need to support USARK and get actively involveld. Most won't. There's my happy forecast for the day.
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RE: long time, no see. what's the overall vibe of.
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by richardduckworth on October 27, 2011
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didn't know about zoos having that issue, that's sad. i loved going to the nashville zoo only to see their reptile exhibit, particularly a big bushmaster they had for a few years.
kind of expected though, i don't believe the hobby ever had a chance. not enough people doing it, it's socially acceptable to be a huge idiot when it comes to things like snakes and spiders and anything else that isn't furry and the potential for disaster is just too simple to realistically imagine.
just really sad, overall. ignorant people run the world and there is nothing you can do about it that's legal
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RE: long time, no see. what's the overall vibe of.
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by Time on October 27, 2011
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And yet, here in Texas any idiot with $20 can purchase a permit at any Wall-Mart that allows him to keep any large Boids and exotic venomous snakes in Texas! No experience or caging requirements necessary!
Two-edged Sword in my book.
At least New Mexico changed their state regulations from a ban on venomous to allow people to acquire a permit with letters of reference.
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RE: long time, no see. what's the overall vibe of.
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by Crotalusssp on October 28, 2011
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I think the lack of responses is indicative of the overall vibe. People are getting quieter about what they are doing, almost in preparation to attempt to disappear if laws are passed. It is sad that that is what is happening, but bad apples are too numerous and their stupidity is indefensible. I just really hope states that are legal will go to some sort of permit system, rather than jumping straight to all out ban. I have said many times that I would welcome a permit system, if it ultimately protected my rights.
Charles
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RE: long time, no see. what's the overall vibe of.
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by Cro on October 30, 2011
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It is not likely that most states will set up permit systems, as that is far more costly than just outlawing venomous snakes, and large constrictors, etc.
The nit wits in the industry far outnumber the folks who try to do things right.
That is not going to change.
The folks who produce reptile shows do nothing to prevent the den raiding hillbilly folks from bringing in hundreds of copperheads and timber rattlesnakes that were stolen from den sites.
And, they do nothing to prevent folks with hundreds of wild caught snakes from selling those at the same shows.
The few caring and legitimate vendors are outnumbered 10 to 1 by the low life folks. How is that going to get better ?
It is not going to get better, only worse.
As far as the venomous snake keeping being set up similar to falcon keeping, it will never work.
That is because the falcon keepers have a life long love for the raptors they keep, and are willing to teach apprentices their skills, and pass on that hobby. And the folks involved in falconry are intelligent folks, which, unfortunately, many reptile keepers are not.
Many of the folks who want to keep venomous snakes are doing it for the "cool" factor. They think they can impress their friends if they buy a pet rattlesnake or cobra at a reptile show. The care nothing about learning proper safety or husbandry of the rattlesnake, or other animal they purchase, only that it makes them look cool.
Just like their stupid pit bull dog makes them look cool. Or, their latest tattoo or piercing makes them look cool. For the most part, these folks are not Herpetologists. That is the biggest part of the problem, and why it is very likely that it will fail, state by state, and eventually at a federal level.
99% of the reptile keepers will not even bother to sign a petition that is is designed to help them keep the animals they have.
And, the remaining 1% will think that by signing a petition, that they have done their part.
Almost none will donate to folks like USARK, or, attend public meetings where the fate of the animals they are keeping are being decided by the game and fish folk.
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RE: long time, no see. what's the overall vibe of.
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by Existential on November 1, 2011
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That seems a bit harsh, Cro. There are many very intelligent people in the reptile community (not to mention some very intelligent people with tattoos and pit bulls..) who would love to share their knowledge and passion with upcoming keepers who share an interest in venomous herpetology. It is just a matter of weeding out 'cool kids.'
Personally, I advocate that the government stay out of my business. They've got their sticky paws in every bit of everything going on in the nation, and even worse, outside of the nation! In this case, however, I feel that a qualification and permit system may be necessary. To say that one can only have a permit after so many hours of mentoring could be a viable option.... but only if we can police ourselves, too.
One of the major issues is folks who are in it to make a buck. Those are the guys selling to the kids who want to look cool, without giving a hoot about the motivation of the buyer.
As for cost of permiting, I'd think that this could be a source of revenue for states rather than a cost, if set up with some foresight.
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RE: long time, no see. what's the overall vibe of.
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by Cro on November 3, 2011
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Nicole, a permit system based on hours of experience and mentoring worked for the state of Florida.
And, it would be great if it were implemented in other states.
However, in the last 15 years of states trying to outlaw reptiles, have you seen the "reptile industry" come together and police themselves ? Have they eliminated the folks who are just in it for the money, and would sell animals to folks who were not qualified to safely keep them ?
Have they eliminated the vendors who import hundreds of animals for the pet trade, knowing full well that most of those animals will not be alive a year from when they were sold ?
Nope, the reptile industry has done nothing during that time to clean up its act.
Sure, there are caring and intelligent individuals in the industry, but, they are far outnumbered by the uncaring fringe type folks, who are doing nothing to support the hobby, and are only concerned with lining their own pockets.
Looking at the past inaction and uncaring from folks in the reptile industry, I see little hope for the future of that industry.
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