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Identification anyone?
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by Frisco on October 4, 2003
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Hiya. I saw this fella in my backyard out here in southern New Mexico. Looked to be a baby--about 1 1/2 feet long. No rattle as you can tell. Any ideas?
http://web.nmsu.edu/~malesi/DSC00374.jpg
Ballsy little thing. It coiled up, leapt, and...squeaked at me quite a few times.
Thanks in advance!
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RE: Identification anyone?
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by Snakeman1982 on October 4, 2003
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Hello Tommy,
What you have there is either a Sonoran Gopher Snake (Pituophis catenifer affinis) or a bullsnake (Pituophis catenifer sayi). If you caught it in the western part of southern New Mexico then it would be a Sonoran but in the eastern the subspecies is the bullsnake. Either way it isn't venomous and won't hurt you. They should be fairly common.
Let us know where you caught it and we'll let you know what subspecies it is. Some people on here might be able to tell you anyway, I have only caught a few subspecies of catenifer and don't deal with them much. I would think that it looks more like a Sonoran Gopher because the bullsnakes I have caught look a little different than that one and more resemble the Sonoran although I have only caught one sonoran and that was an adult on the Arizona-Mexico border.
Robert C. Jadin
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RE: Identification anyone?
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by Frisco on October 4, 2003
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Robert,
I'm pretty much in the south-central part of the state, about an hour north of El Paso, TX and the U.S./Mexico border.
Not venomous though? I really don't know too much about snakes, but doesn't a triangular head indicate venomous or is that a misconception?
You're probably right about it being a Sonoran. Thanks for the help!
-Tommy
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RE: Identification anyone?
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by TAIPAN78 on October 6, 2003
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It sounds like you live were I come from. I used to live on WSMR. Are you close to the area:? If so, bulls are definately the norm but what you have dosent really strike me as affinis (sonoran)or sayi (bullsnake). It remind me more of deserticola (Great Basin Gophersnake) then anything else. Still, it could be a abbarent phase of either of the before mentiond two. Interesting.
Ill shoot the link to a buddy of mine who is well versed in Pituophis (the genus which contains Bull, pine and gophersnakes)and see what he has to say.
Good find but definately not venomous.
Later,
Jeremy
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RE: Identification anyone?
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by Frisco on October 6, 2003
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Ahh, White Sands, eh? I'm in Las Cruces.
The deserticola does look like a pretty good match. I appreciate you checking with your Pituophis guy for me.
I'm still wondering about the whole triangular head thing. Are there very many non-venomous that have this characteristic or is it unique to Pituophis?
-Tommy
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RE: Identification anyone?
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by Snakeman1982 on October 7, 2003
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Hey Tommy,
Did you take that picture of the snake? If so then it can't be a Great Basin Gopher snake due to its range. I have caught a lot of Great Basin Gopher snakes but few were babies. If you just got the photo online somewhere then the photo might be of one but I am not sure. Either way, the snake you saw in New Mexico wasn't a great basin gopher snake and was probably a sonoran.
About the triangular shaped head. Depending on how you put it the triangular shaped head for venomous snakes isn't really a misconception, just an over used one. There are a lot of snakes that can make their heads triangular shaped, it is just that the venom glands of a venomous species (mainly vipers) tend to make it more "arrowhead" shaped.
One of the most common snakes to make their heads appear triangular would have to be watersnakes. They are non-venomous but pretty defensive and bite often. This is what every local-yocal mistakes for a "cottonmouth" after he kills it. And when they get into an defensive posture they flatten out their head. So you can't really use that method for identifying venomous snakes. Also coral snakes don't have triangular heads and they are venomous.
Here in the U.S. it is pretty simple to tell if a snake is venomous or not, excluding mildly venomous snakes of course which won't damage you. This is because the mildly venomous snakes generally either won't hardly bite, ex: night snakes, or if they do then good on you because you just got bit by a cool species that won't really hurt you except some long teeth (ex: lyre snakes). And the rest of your life you can tell people about the time you got bit by a venomous snake.
Anyway, in the U.S. you only have 4 types of snakes to look out for: rattlesnakes, copperheads, cottonmouths, and coral snakes. If it has a rattle it is venomous (guaranteed), then find out what a copperhead and cottonmouth look like in comparison to other species that they might be confused with (ex: watersnakes). As far as the coral snake is concerned, if you are in the eastern U.S., you can use the old phrase. Red touching yellow, kills a fellow, red touching black venom lack. Of course don't use this in the west or south of the border because species like the shovel nose snakes have red touching yellow and they aren't venomous. Luckily for you, you happen to live in central New Mexico so if it has a rattle then it is a rattlesnake and is venomous, if it doesn't then it isn't venomous.
Another way of telling is if the snake coils up and gets ready to strike when it sees you then it might be venomous. Venomous snakes (excluding coral snakes) know they are venomous and usually coil up, stand their ground ready to strike, and allow the person to screw up and get bit by getting too close. The non-venomous snakes usually see a person and know they can't defend themselves well against a larger animal so they get away quickly. This isn't a precise way of telling by any means since often times rattlesnakes will just cruise around after they see you and I have had quite a few gopher, rat snakes, etc... coil up and strike at me when they saw me getting too close.
One snake that acts like a dangerous snake but isn't is the hognose snake. Find out exactly what they look like because they are really neat and beautiful, especially the Heterodon nasicus in New Mexico/Arizona. They will puff up and make themselves appear larger, flatten their neck out like a cobra, and hiss to itimidate you when you see them in the wild. They'll also strike at you a lot but all you have to do is pick them up and they pretty much won't bite you. They are so cool. They look like a mean viper but are actually really docile and after you pick them up they flip over on their backs and play dead. Then when you try to flip them over on their belly they just flip over again.
Has anyone here actually been bit by a wild one without hurting it?
Anyway, It is 3 in the morning and I have a speech on a twin-spotted rattlesnake I caught this summer in about 10 hours.
The main thing you need to realize when seeing snakes in the wild is that there isn't a snake in the world that can out run a human so if you see one just walk the other way and you are guaranteed not to get bit. Over 90% of the people bitten by venomous snakes in the U.S. saw the snake before it bit them and they usually are males inbetween the ages of 18 and 30 and generally get bit inbetween the hand and elbow. This is because they are trying to catch, kill, or show off with it. Also, anyone that tells you snakes are mean and aggressive and just want to bite people don't know dick about snakes. It does no benefit for a snake to bite a human, because they can't eat you and won't risk their lives biting larger animals just to make them upset. Excluding a few species of snakes outside the U.S. such as the black mamba which has some pretty incredible stories under its belt, there are hardly any aggressively natured snakes at all. Snakes are defensive towards humans only because they are scared and want to be left alone. I am sure some others can elaborate on this because I have to get some sleep. Aggressive behavior of snakes in captivity doesn't count either because that isn't natural and the snakes are obviously going to be in closer proximity to people so they may be more defensive than if they were in the open in the wild.
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Triangular heads
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by CAISSACA on October 7, 2003
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Triangular heads are not a defining character of a venomous snake.
Quite a few non-venomous snakes angle out the lower jaw articulation (quadrate bone) when they are threatened, to make their heads look bigger, and perhaps to accentuate their resemblance to vipers (most of which do indeed have triangular heads). As you have just found out, it often works a treat ;-)
Also, many venomous snakes (particularly most elapids) lack triangular heads.
Cheers,
Wolfgang
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RE: Triangular heads
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by Frisco on October 7, 2003
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Yes, that is my picture. I just came upon the snake in my back yard and snapped a few shots with my digital camera.
Thanks for the explanations. When I first saw this snake, I didn't think it was venomous, but when I saw its head and its demeanor, I began to think otherwise. It did coil up and strike a few times, which seemed to me to be an odd behavior for a non-venomous snake. Since it was a baby, I was thinking maybe a rattlesnake that just hadn't grown its rattle yet.
http://web.nmsu.edu/~malesi/Coiled.jpg
Whatever it is, it's got much moxie. I never had a snake spring up and squeak at me before. That gave me flashbacks of Super Mario Bros.
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