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RE: King vs Rattler--Further Comment
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by Cro on March 24, 2005
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Joshua: You are right about snakes being very sensitive to vibrations, especially vibrations transmitted through the ground. Many snakes vibrate their tails when they feel threatened, including rattlesnakes, which happen to have a mechanism to create noise.
I do not think that tail vibrating or buzzing of a rattlesnake would create enough airborne sound vibrations to be detected by the cobra. I have seen and heard thousands of rattlesnakes buzzing, and have never seen any reaction from another snake that would suggest the other snake "heard" the rattlers sound, even when they were in very close proximity. In venomous collections, there are rattlesnakes buzzing all the time, so there is ample opportunity to observe other snakes reactions to the sound.
The question was presented as if the rattlesnake making a sound mattered to the cobra.
The cobra might react based on the sight, defensive posture, or smell of the rattlesnake. We know that rattlesnakes and other snakes assume a different defensive posture when a king snake or indago snake approaches them. The cobra might use a different feeding strategy when approaching a russels viper than it would when approaching another cobra.
But getting back to the sound thing, I believe the airborne sounds created by the rattlesnake should make no difference to the cobra. If you can show studies that show otherwise, I would like to know about them. JohnZ
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RE: King vs Rattler--Further Comment
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by delllz on March 25, 2005
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Buzz or no buzz, the two snakes would likely be aware of each other's presence. Perhaps kings have a way of telling whether another snake is "dangerous," and keep back if it's a rattler. These things could be commented on endlessly. To know, someone would have to try feeding his pet king with a rattler, and post the results. {I don't think we're going to know !]
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RE: King vs Rattler--Further Comment
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by Matt_H on March 25, 2005
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Bush_Viper17 is right "The rattlesnakes long fangs can still pierce the kings skin and puncture an internal organ". However, in the presence of a king snake the rattler recognizes the danger, possibly knowing his venom will not be effective, and as a result will puff up to appear too large to consume then turn and run for safety. If a rattler strikes out at a king snake there is a small chance it may puncture an internal organ, though striking at the king leaves the rattler in a very vulnerable position to be overtaken.
Speculating once more on the king cobra, being a master of seizing other snakes may give the cobra an advantage. However since the king cobra and rattlesnake habitats are so distant, would the rattlesnake even recognize the danger from a king cobra? If the danger is not recognized it would probably strike out in defense. Now if the rattler misses on his first strike, this would give the cobra an opportunity to seize the rattler before he's able to reposition for another strike.
Scenario 2: The Diamondback strikes out and hits the cobra. Will the venom be immediately effective? Maybe or maybe not depending the amount of envenomation. I would think probably not immediately since the king cobra often gets bit while seizing other snakes, and the Diamondbacks venom has no neurotoxic properties. In return the cobra bites the rattler with a neurotoxic venom paralizing the rattler leaving it defenseless. If the cobra is not immune to the diamondbacks venom, this would leave two dead snakes whether or not the cobra consumed the diamondback.
I don't see any real reason for placing the two snakes in the same pen just to find the answer, but it is fun to speculate on such a topic and read others opinions and reasons why.
Matt Heuser
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RE: King vs Rattler--Further Comment
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by delllz on April 5, 2005
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I'm surprized that no one with professional knowledge of king cobras and of rattlesnakes hasn't stepped forward to say what would happen if a hungry king encountered a rattlesnake.
We've had a lot of speculation (including my own), but no authoritative answer.
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RE: King vs Rattler--Further Comment
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by earthguy on April 5, 2005
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This is the article that led me to beleive that the king may in fact hear the rattler
Quarterly Review of Biology, Sept 2003 v78 i3 p303(23)
Snake bioacoustics: toward a richer understanding of the behavioral
ecology of snakes. Bruce A. Young.
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RE: King vs Rattler--Further Comment
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by Cro on April 5, 2005
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Joshua: The Quarterly Review of Biology only has an abstract of the article available. Do you have the full article available that you can Email? Or perhaps a password to the web site? The abstract states "The relatively low information content in the sounds produced by snakes suggests that these sounds are not suitable for intraspecific communication. Nevertheless, given the diversity of habitats in which snakes are found, and their dual auditory pathways, some form of intraspecific acoustic communication may exist in some species."
This sounds like the ammount of airborne sounds that snakes can "hear" is not very much, but there could be some. I would sure like to see the full study. From all the rattlesnakes and other snakes I have worked with, I still do not think I ever saw what I would consider a reaction based on a snake hearing an airborne sound. Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: King vs Rattler--Further Comment
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by Cro on April 5, 2005
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delllz: There is no such thing as an authoritative answer when you are dealing with captive or wild animals. What an animal does one day might not be the same the next day.
Venomous snake keepers get bitten by thinking that if they reached over a venomous snake to remove its water bowl, and did not get bitten, that the same snake will not bite them the next time! It might not, but you cant' count on it.
Animal behaviors change for any number of reasons. What a king cobra does with a rattlesnake today, he might not do tomorrow. And a different king cobra might act totally different from the other one.
JohnZ
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