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"Canebreak" name
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by challenger on April 7, 2005
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I was on the phone-w-a NC wildlife administrator a few months ago and she mentioned they no longer recognize the name Canebreak as a rattler species. She said they are lumped in-w-EDB or Pygmies-I forget which. Given the large size I would suspect the prior.
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RE: "Canebreak" name
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by earthguy on April 7, 2005
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The Canebreak rattlesnake and the Timber rattlesnake are often confused as being different species. In fact they are the same species (Crotalus horridus), just different subspecies (C.h. atricaudatus and C.h. horridus, respectively). This could be what the Wildlife Officer was referring to.
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RE: "Canebreak" name
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by Scootertrash on April 7, 2005
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If I understand your question, the answer would be that they are "lumped" in with Timber rattlesnakes. Horridus is all one species now. There is no subspecies Canebrake (atrucaudatus) anymore. There are a couple other threads on this subject but can't go looking for them right now. Do a search. There's one very long one in which BGF describes it. He does a hell of a better job than I do in explaining these things. Hope this helps.
Clayton
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RE: "Canebreak" name
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by Cro on April 7, 2005
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I wonder if the N.C. Wildlife Administrator you spoke to, who thinks the Canebreak should be a type of Pygmy or EDB, is involved in advising the N.C. Legislature about their new wildlife law? JohnZ
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RE: "Canebreak" name
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by AquaHerp on April 7, 2005
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LOL...I hope she isn't involved too much with herps.
Canebrakes (not canebreak)are all considered to be timbers now. Simply Crotalus horridus.
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RE: "Canebreak" name
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by Snakeman1982 on April 7, 2005
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Clark, A.M., et. al. (2003). Phylogeography of the Timber Rattlesnake (Crotalus horridus) based on mtDNA sequences. Journal of Herpetology 37(1): 145-154.
This is the article that has eliminated the subspecies "atricaudatus" in the scientific community. Currently all timbers/canebrakes are regarded as timber rattlesnakes (Crotalus horridus). Now as far as common usage, that depends on who you talk to.
Robert
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RE: "Canebreak" name
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by agkistrodude on April 7, 2005
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I know they're the same species, but to me, when someone mentions "timber" all types of color variations come to mind from yellow to solid black and everything in between.But when someone says "canebrake" only one image comes to mind and my adrenalin starts pumpin.I still use both names.Marty
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RE: "Canebreak" name
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by Nightflight99 on April 7, 2005
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For a long time, it was common to place different geographic forms of a given species into subspecies, a concept that is increasingly being abandoned by practicing systematists. Species have either evolved distinctively or not, and the concept of subspecies does not adequately reflect the evolutionary history of the taxa in question.
Many of the traditional "subspecies" are therefore being reviewed and consequently either elevated or eliminated. In the case of Crotalus horridus, the most recent study (Clark et al, 2003) found insignificant support for the traditional north-south subspecies classification, and instead proposed a grouping based on an east-west division, with variations occurring in western, northern and southern regions. However, since the genetic differences between these forms are not significant, there is no elevation to species status of any of these forms. Therefore, all specimens of this taxon are currently recognized as Crotalus horridus.
Of course, any such propositions are based on evidence (mtDNA in this case), and are always subject to falsification when additional evidence is presented. Science is dynamic, and as such always subject to change.
Hope this helps.
~TE
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