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“Mandatory AV For Hospitals”
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by ALA_snake33 on December 12, 2006
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I have often wondered if making it mandatory for Hospitals to keep a certain amount of AV(CroFab to be exact) on hand could be a good idea, do any of you know if such Laws actually exist already? If not, how many of you think that instead of the Government making Keepers stock their own AV, they should make the Hospitals do it? “I mean, it is their job to treat Snake Bites”.
The main reason I ask this is, if your Average Joe “Not A Venomous Keeper” gets bite, what would some of these Little Two Horse Town Hospitals do to Treat the Bite? (Dance Around And Chant Healing Songs “LOL” ). Shoot, if I were to get Nailed I would have to either Drive 35 Miles, or call an Ambulance to come and get me.
Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: “Mandatory AV For Hospitals”
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by earthguy on December 12, 2006
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Every hospital within 100 miles of my stomping grounds has CroFab (trust me, I called to be sure before I started my research). Now whether they have anyone experienced in administering CroFab is an entirely different question...
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RE: “Mandatory AV For Hospitals”
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by MikeB on December 12, 2006
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Well, it depends on the location of the hospital. In general, I suspect they stock it if they are located in states where snakebite is a fairly common presenting problem - Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, Arizona, California, but not as likely in, say, Alaska. Basically, I'm not that fond of too many government mandates. AV is fairly expensive, and would have to be rotated with new stock periodically. The cost for that is not used would ultimately wind up on the hospital's bottom line, which means on the bills everyone else has to pay. I doubt that hospitals in North America stock much, if any, malaria medication, nor should they. I would say that if you live in northern Minnesota and keep rattlers, you ought to assume the need to keep your own CroFab on hand; if you're in Lawton, Oklahoma, rely on the hospital to have some.
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RE: “Mandatory AV For Hospitals”
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by Cro on December 12, 2006
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I agree with Mike on this one.
We do not need more government reulation or laws.
This is a personal responsibility issue.
If the doctors in your little one horse town do not keep antivenom, then you need to work something out with them so that you could purchase a supply that they could keep at their medical center.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: “Mandatory AV For Hospitals”
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by atricaudatus on December 12, 2006
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hospitals are businesses with political ties. they pretty much do as they want.
hospitals and churches are basically untouchable from a business standpoint due to their strong ties to the government. how do you think certain churches can take tax free money and invest it in real estate? hospitals can charge $12 per tylenol in much the same way. they're never going to force them to keep a/v on hand when they can blame the person who is bitten instead.
they only enforce gasoline price gouging because high prices mean less consumption. and even those "enforcement" cases are usually bogus. they SAY they caught someone and are going to fine them but they only let it go that far. a local gas station here is owned by a politician and was accused of price gouging. nothing ever come of it. no record of any court case exists of it. it was all show.
this country is only about making people feel safe regardless of the reality of it. people feel safe because they think that in the case of a snake bite, all will be taken care of by doctors and insurance. it would be hard to push for a mandate that really ensures this though
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RE: “Mandatory AV For Hospitals”
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by LarryDFishel on December 12, 2006
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Hey earthguy, you might want to think about calling the hospitals back and asking one other question...HOW MUCH CroFab do they carry. Among other bonehead manouvers, I've heard multiple times about people arriving at the hospital to find that they keep maybe 5 vials on hand because they had no clue how much is required for a typical, let alone a serious bite.
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RE: “Mandatory AV For Hospitals”
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by ALA_snake33 on December 12, 2006
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Larry: That is one of the points I am trying to get across to people, they tell you they have CroFab on Hand. Well, what they neglect to tell you is that they only keep 4 maybe 6 Vials on hand at any one time. I hate to say this but I really think it should be Mandatory for all US Hospitals to at least keep 25 to 30 Vials on hand. Now, I can understand some in our Community wanting Exotic Keepers to have their own AV’s for the more Exotic Species like Elapids. On the other hand, Hospitals in this Country should be responsible enough to at least keep the Medications needed to Treat Snake Bites.
On another note: I do not see anything wrong with State or Federal Governments intervening here. I just think it could help in the “FASTER” Treatment of an Envenomation. By having the necessary amount of AV on hand, it would cut down on Limb Loss, and Loss Of Life.
Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: “Mandatory AV For Hospitals”
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by Cro on December 12, 2006
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Well, lets see. If we get the State Government of Alabama to require say 20 vials of CroFab x the 46 real hospitals in the state, times $1,000.00 vial, we have about $920,000.00 tied up so far. Add a bit for the refrigerators required to store it and administer it, and we can round that off to about $1,000,000.00. There are 4,550,000 people in Alabama (not counting illegal aliens), so we are talking about only $4.55 per person, and if the antivenom lasts say 4 or 5 years, that is only $1.00 per person per year, forever.
All we have to do is have everyone in Alabama send in their dollar each year, and then the whole state will be safe from snake bite forever.
Alabama has 4 or 5 deaths per year from venomous snake bite, and perhaps a total of 300 venomous snake bites.
I am sure the forward thinking folks in the Alabama Government would be willing to spend one million dollars on snake bite serum.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: “Mandatory AV For Hospitals”
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by FLherp on December 13, 2006
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I think the statistic of 4 to 5 deaths per year in AL is a little on the high side, as the deaths from snake bite in the US is somewhere between 5 and 10 average(depending on the years used to obtain the average). Due to the statistically unlikely probability of death from a snakebite your idea might be a hard sell.
The antivenom also has shelf life closer to two years.
Health care dollars (government and private)are spent on problems that effect large numbers of patients, that is one reason Wyeth is no longer producing North American Coral Snake Antivenom - too few patients.
Most bites (approximately 85%) are mild to moderate in severity and will resolve with administration of 10 to 18 vials of Crofab. Why should any hospital keep 30 or more? In most cases these meds will expire on the shelf, no business likes to keep products that do not sell.
Most bites are not from species which will require the administration of more than the quantities mentioned above. Copperheads and Moccasins are the most common offending species in the Southeast. EDB envenomations tend to make the news, but comprise a small percentage of bites. Pygmy bites occur a little more commonly. Try getting statistics from your state Department of Health, in most cases these figures are just not there.
Protherics would like the idea of each hospital being required to maintain 20 to 30 vials of antivenom as it would definitely increase their domestic sales. Hospitals would expire these meds every two years requiring the purchase of 20 to 30 more vials of antivenom at over $1,000.00 per vial. Multiply that by the number of hospitals in areas with reports of snakebite - that is a lot of money.
Bottom line - snake envenomations are not a health care crisis by most standards. They effect a small proportion of the population, they rarely cause mortality, etc. Is it important that those patients affected by envenomations receive proper treatment? Yes, there is the potential for lifelong morbidity and other sequela associated with envenomations which yield loss of function of digits,hands, etc. Most of those so affected are young and will suffer lifelong disability as a result of the event. However, the opinion of the general public is that if you are handling venomous snakes you were asking for it.
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RE: “Mandatory AV For Hospitals”
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by FLherp on December 13, 2006
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Larry,
The required amounts for moderate and mild envenomations is printed on the insert. As is a table for grading the severity of the envenomation. The problem arises when you arrive at the hospital with a snake bite, or any other illness for that matter and the doctor must read the insert to use the medication. It is a little unsettling, isn't it?
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