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Territorial Marking by Snakes
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by Cro on December 29, 2006
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Most reptile keepers have noticed that many snakes will mess up their cage again, right after it has been cleaned.
This, of course, could be due to the physical activity of hooking the snake from the cage and back in, and from fresh drinking water being provided to the snake, thus stimulating the excretement process.
However, it could also be some kind of "territorial marking" by the snake. Perhaps the snake is trying to say "this is my territory," and "here is my mark to prove it."
I read a study about an automatic cat box that had this mechanical scoop that would remove waste from the litterbox as soon as the cat placed it there. Seems that this drove some cats crazy, as they had "marked" their territory, and the scoop thing removed it promptly. So the cats would constantly go back and "re-mark" the territory again, and again, only to have it removed again and again. This created dehydrated and confused cats.
So, the question is, does anyone here think that snakes use excretement to mark their territorys, and that a clean cage is an invitation to re-marking of the territory, or do you think it is just due to the physical activity of being removed and returned to a cage?
Best Regards and Happy New Year.
JohnZ
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RE: Territorial Marking by Snakes
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by snakeguy101 on December 29, 2006
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The only territorial snake that i know of is the king cobra but i am not sure if there are any others that have a "home range". this would make an interesting research paper. I might use this topic in future school assignments.
Chris Hartmann
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RE: Territorial Marking by Snakes
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by scalesandshells on December 29, 2006
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I have not had any "markings" with my hot snakes...but I have noticed it with my natives...and it is only with the male kings and corns. The females have no response whatsoever. I have not found any documentation on this...if anyone knows, I'm very interested.
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RE: Territorial Marking by Snakes
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by Cro on December 29, 2006
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It would make sense that we might see "territorial marking behavior" more in male snakes than in females, just as we see "combat dueling" in male snakes when they are fighting over a female.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Territorial Marking by Snakes
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by LarryDFishel on December 29, 2006
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I can't prove anything of course, but I get plenty of "re-soiling" from hot snakes, including a cage full of female cottonmouths. With the two female burmese pythons I'm keeping, I've had to clean the same snake as many as 3 time in a night because the same snake would flood the cage as soon as I put her back. I've seen nothing that makes me think it's more common in males or that it seems to be any particular deterrant to other snakes in the cage...
I tend to believe that it has more to do with the activity loosening things up, but I'm not sure exactly how you would prove one way or the other.
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RE: Territorial Marking by Snakes
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by ALA_snake33 on December 30, 2006
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At one time, I kept 4 Female Cottonmouth (In Separate Cages). I found that every time I would do a somewhat thorough cleaning of their cages, they would Soil their Cages within 5 Minutes of returning them. It makes me wonder if there being 4 Females in the same room, they were trying to let the others know that this is my spot, not yours.
Now on the other hand, I kept 2 Males in the same room and never had this happen with them. Of corse they would Soil Cages after cleaning but, they didn’t do it so quickly. What I mean by them Soiling their Cages is, they would wait anywhere between 2 too 4 Days to do it.
Things like this, do make me wonder if there could be something to Territoriality in Snakes. Even in the Wild, I have noticed things that make me wonder if there could be something to this (I wont go into that now, cause I don’t have time “LOL”). I do wish there was a way to test these Theories. Maybe one day we can find a way.
Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: Territorial Marking by Snakes
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by kacz on December 30, 2006
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Kind of depends on what you want to prove. If your intent is just to see if the phenomena exists then get two snakes of the same species and sex, keep them in identical conditions, and record dang near everything. When you clean the cages do so such that the previous odors are neutralized as much as possible. After you’ve established a normal control data set save and reintroduce small fecal samples, or smears, into the newly cleaned cage of one snake. Make only this change and keep all else equal. Repeat this for a time, and again record everything applicable. After a while switch the fecal smears to the other cage and cease the smearing in the first. Again, record. The difference might be huge and convincing, or merely a statistical blip.
If you’re going to do one snake in one cage, then you have to devise a way of removing the snake with little handling activity. You might use a hide box that will close for removal and would allow you to remove the snake and all. You’d probably want to use a snake that doesn’t defecate in its hide box. At times you remove the snake and box together (a huge python is not an ideal candidate if you can’t handle the dead weight), at others hook it out and manipulate like hell. If the cage is large enough you could vary the experiments to see if there is marking restricted to unscented portions of the substrate.
Of course a comprehensive protocol with a well-defined problem statement should be developed. All the parameters and variables also need to be identified. After painstaking elimination of variables, months of constant vigilance and impeccable record keeping you might discover little more than what goes in, must come out!
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RE: Territorial Marking by Snakes
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by GREGLONGHURST on December 30, 2006
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Heehee. Read the last line of Paul's post. Ain't education wonderful?
Seriously now, the professor has just told us how to properly set up the experiment.
~~Greg~~
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RE: Territorial Marking by Snakes
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by kacz on December 31, 2006
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Actually, not much of anything was said. It was a very rough statement of very preliminary thoughts. Here’s some advice to the young herpers that really want to take their interests and use it to make a difference in mankind’s body of knowledge. There is a huge difference between a High School or College lab experiment and real research. In school the lab results are predetermined. The problem has been established, the variables eliminated, the protocol is set in stone and the equipment is handed to you. You are then told to proceed by the numbers to produce the expected results. For some strange reason students are very proud of themselves if everything works out perfectly. They rarely stop to think that they have just spent two hours doing something that they could read about in five minutes. The only value was the necessary hands-on practice.
It’s the student for whom things do not turn out as expected that really have the educational opportunity (assuming that nobody was maimed or injured when the first experiment went awry!) They get to do some original thinking to determine what went wrong. It’s that iterative process that is really interesting and from which they actually learn something valuable.
When attempting a fresh scientific endeavor you have to do most everything from scratch. You have to concisely define the question to be answered in order to establish a goal. You must search the literature to find out what is already known and established. Then using that question and information you must think of a method, or protocol, that will allow you to reach that goal. This is the toughest part. You have to define every variable that could affect the outcome of the experiment. For example: What part of the feces may contain the scent? The brown feces? The Urea? The liquid fraction? All these variables need to be eliminated or at least controlled. Otherwise the experiment is reduced to “garbage in = garbage out.” This is why each idea in my original post had a disclaimer. Sometimes an experiment seems to work even when you do everything wrong. Serendipity proves nothing. Often experiments need to be run and modified many times, using deductive as well as inductive reasoning, before you can have faith in the results. It can be a long process, but it’s worth it. In the end you will have discovered things that nobody else in the world has known, even if it’s a failure!
I think it’s great that Chris is interested in starting the process. I agree that it would be a wonderful topic for independent study and research. Start simple and refine. Write everything down (this is huge when you have to go back and change stuff). And most important, ask questions. The range of knowledge and expertise on this site are vast, and I can think of no better use than to ultimately educate us all.
Paul M. Kaczmarczik
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