|
11-20 of 20 messages
|
Previous
Page 2 of 2
|
|
RE: rattlers vaccine, was:RE: Hot spots around Veg
|
Reply
|
|
by tigers9 on February 10, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I finally talked to my veterinarian and she said she will carry the rattlesnake vaccine when she opens her clinic (she was not allowed until now due to no compete clause form the previous clinic sha worked for).
And you are right, the other rattler we have here is Mohave and the vaccine will not work on it.Vet said we definitely need one for Mohave here.
Is it more difficult to make vaccine against neurotoxic than hemotoxic venoms?
I was looking at the pictures of Panamint and Mohave, and to a layperson like me, the main difference I see (without getting too close) is the white bands on Mohave's tail, is there anything else? (like the yellow band versus black band on coral/milksnake).
Also, I used to think that the snakes can strike 1/3 of their body lenght, but now I read somewhere with rattlers it is 1/2, which one is it?
Zuzana
|
| |
|
RE: rattlers vaccine, was:RE: Hot spots around Veg
|
Reply
|
|
by Cro on February 10, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Zuzana, I do not believe that it is more difficult to make vaccine for the Mohave Rattlesnake, but it would be quite a bit more dangerous for the people milking the snakes.
Also, the Mohave Rattlesnake has a relativly small range compared with some of the other rattlesnakes like the Western Diamond-Backed Rattlesnake and Prairie Rattlesnakes, which are found over a huge area. Because of the cost involved in producing a vaccine, the people making it would concentrate on making a vaccine that would work for the majority of the bites in the Western States, which would be from the above mentioned rattlesnakes and their close relatives. I would be willing to bet that less than 5% of the rattlesnake bites to dogs nation wide are from Mohave Rattlesnakes. You just happen to live in an area where it is likely to run into that snake.
The same thing would happen if they made vaccine for hunting dogs in the SE States, then they would use Eastern Diamond-Backed Rattlesnake, Timber Rattlesnake, Cottonmouth, and possibly Copperhead venoms, as those are the snakes that a dog or cat is most likely to get bitten by.
As far as telling a Mohave Rattlesnake from the Panamint Rattlesnake, those tail bands on the Mohave that you mentioned are by far the best way to tell the two snakes apart at a safe distance. You will also notice that coloration of the Panamint Rattlesnake is more of a pinkish or brownish, while the Mohave tends to be more of a greenish or greyish color. And you might also notice that the markings on the back of the Panamint are more shaped like cross-bands while the Mohave has more of rectangular blotches for a pattern.
As far as how far a rattlesnake can strike, they can easily strike over half of their body length if they want to, and sometimes more than that.
Best Regards JohnZ
|
| |
|
RE: rattlers vaccine, was:RE: Hot spots around Veg
|
Reply
|
|
by JHarrison on February 11, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Extracting from Crotalus s. scutulatus is easier then Crotalus atrox. The yield from scutes is low and the cost maybe more of a factor in making a vaccine for scutes.
Right now we house 500 atrox for the production of the dog vaccine and 200 scutes for CroFab production.
Jim Harrison
|
| |
|
RE: rattlers vaccine, was:RE: Hot spots around Veg
|
Reply
|
|
by tigers9 on February 11, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
This might be a stupid question, just wondering.
What causes some very venomous snake like Mohave rattlesnake to have such a small home range?
As I mentioned before, I already had a dog fatality by bark scorpion.
I can not find any vaccine for that and the only recent human antivenin info I found is Anascorp:
http://www.raretx.com/products.html
Did FDA approve it or what is the latest?can't find more on it.
I had myself many close calls with barks, when I moved to NV in 2000 I didn't educate myself about dangerous critters and one morning I found flat dead scorpion where I was sitting the night before, thank god I killed it accidentally sitting on it it before it bit me.Back then there was no hospital in Pahrump, NV,urgent care closed at 5pm, now we finally have one.
Z
|
| |
|
RE: rattlers vaccine, was:RE: Hot spots around Veg
|
Reply
|
|
by Cro on February 11, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Jim, is extracting venom from Crotalus scutulatus easier than Crotalus atrox because of the different behaviorial chararistics between the two animals, or, because of physological differences? I can see Atrox being a pain to pin and milk due to the way they coil into a defensive posture, and them also being a large, and stronger animal. What do you see as the differences in working with them?
Zuzana, I have heard that when the last glaciers retreated from this country, that they left disjunct populations of animals that had been isolated on high areas above the glaciers. Then, the desert areas that formed were left when the glaciers retreated furter isolated some populations of snakes. I do know there are color morphs of Mottled Rock Rattlesnakes in West Texas that are isolated by the desert foor to different mountain ranges. These snakes have evolved to match the color of the rock substrate they live on. This is something I have not studied, but there are folks here, like Paleoherp who are very knowledgable about this isolation of species. Hopefully, he, or someone else will weigh in and help us know better why certain animals are found in disjunct populations, and isolated by factors like mountain ranges, and deserts.
Best Regards JohnZ
|
| |
|
RE: rattlers vaccine, was:RE: Hot spots around Veg
|
Reply
|
|
by JHarrison on February 12, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Cro,
Your right the size and behavior make atrox harder to handle. I quess I am just getting old but atrox are pretty strong. We have several animals on line over 6 ft.
Also having been bitten by both the atrox bite was more painful and had more long term side effects.
I think what you said about cost hits the nail on the head on why a scute vaccine is not being made right now. Hopefully in the future it will be possible.
jim Harrison
|
| |
|
RE: rattlers vaccine, was:RE: Hot spots around Veg
|
Reply
|
|
by tigers9 on February 12, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have a question for people working in (venomous) research.Do the bans on exotic/wild animals affect you and if yes, how? I know research labs are usually exempted from bans themselves, but I was wondering if it might affect you indirectly, like, do you buy your animals from private breeders, does some of your 'experienced' personnel come from people who started as pet hobbyists, does the smaller private breeder base (due to bans) increase the price of your product?
I am working on another editorial, similar to this one just shorter and more focused:
http://www.rexano.org/WildPolitics.htm
(and possibly press release) for my website and any more reasons i can find why blanket bans are bad would help me.
Thanks
Zuzana Kukol
www.REXANO.org
|
| |
|
RE: rattlers vaccine, was:RE: Hot spots around Veg
|
Reply
|
|
by JHarrison on February 12, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Bans on exotics have only a limited effect on us. While we do occasionally recieve animals from dealers or private individuals, we also have an import/export license and can import animals directly if we need to. It might be a bit more of a hassle, however. Also, the majority of our animals are either bred here or we recieve them from other zoos. Our current empolyees have had personal collections, but not of exotic venomous. I tend to find it easier to train someone with no venomous experience than someone who 'learned on their own.' That way potential bad habits do not have to be broken, and the person is less likely to take a risk here because they got away with something on thier own. However, this is not a blanket truth, just a trend I have noticed. We also only hire animal keepers and interns who have or are working on a degree. Not to offend anyone without one, but getting a degree shows at least a level of commitment and passion. Having some good biology background also helps you understand the animal's needs, and to keep current on literature (and also the bite literature!)
Our largest problem with venomous snakes in the private sector, as most members probably know, is the lack of antivenom. The vast majority of private keeps just don't have it, and the stock that is in zoos or at the antivenom bank is far away from many keepers. If people would keep thier own antivenom and provide good husbandry, and follow good safety protocol, we would not have a problem. Many private owners get the last two but not the first. We have supported permit systems that require antivenom along with other safety measures.
I know you keep big cats; I do not really have an opinion on them as I don't have enough knowledge. I'm scared of them, though.
Jim Harrison
|
| |
|
RE: rattlers vaccine, was:RE: Hot spots around Veg
|
Reply
|
|
by tigers9 on February 13, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Seems like bans on private ownership of exotics would have more effect on you if in the long run if AR get even more effective in restricting animal import/export.
I know what you mean you prefer somebody with no venomous experience. When I take care of other people’s animals, I do things THEIR way even though my way/approach might be different than theirs. Often there is more than one ‘correct’ way, but if it is their animals/property, I respect that.
They are the boss with their animals.
How do I get antivenom for myself for my household? I assumed you needed doctor’s prescription.
As for you being scared of big cats, better approach is to ‘respect’ them, I sure do.
Venomous reptiles are like big cats, loaded guns or fast cars, safe and fun if you use them responsibly, but accidents can still happen, that is why we call them ‘accidents’. World will never be 100% safe, it would actually become kind if boring to live in a safe sterile world.;-)
Zuzana Kukol
|
| |
|
RE: rattlers vaccine, was:RE: Hot spots around Veg
|
Reply
|
|
by Cro on February 13, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Zuzana, as far as getting Antivenom for you and your animals, you can start at this link and download several application forms and instructions in PDF format.
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/Permits%20and%20Applications
You also should search here under topics like accuiring antivenom, procuring antivenom, etc. There are several multi page discussions in the site archives.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards JohnZ
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to this topic.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Check our help page for help using
, or send questions, comments, or suggestions to the
Manager.
|
