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cobra jason venomoid (again)
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by milksnakegreg on March 8, 2007
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hey jason now i understand that you need to make money and everything but could you please explain why you are trying to sell these poor animals
i dont know if you had the operation done but if You keep posting these animals it is just going to be more trouble for you. all i am saying is that you are not going to get any help from the members and wont be able to sell them if you dont read this post which i dont know if read experts i will probably send you an email and so will others
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RE: cobra jason venomoid (again)
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by nasicornis1 on March 8, 2007
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man,
just leave him alone. its free trade here. there is enough bashing going on. it needs to end. i understand your opinions on venomoids. I have the same ones. but he has the right to sell them. and we have the right to boycott them.
michael
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RE: cobra jason venomoid (again)
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by Rob_Carmichael on March 8, 2007
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Nothing like having a 14 year old giving a 30+ year old some advice:-) It's easy to judge those selling animals that most serious hot keepers feel is inappropriate or even disdainful. However, every single animal being sold on this and any forum is being sold for commercial purposes - folks are making a buck and providing animals to those willing to pay the cost. Does that make selling any animal right? Suppose these spitters/venomoids were given the finest in care during the procedure from a qualified veterinarian who spared no expense in proper anesthesia, implants, pain meds, sterility, etc. Is that still wrong? The real issue is whether philosophicaly speaking, is it right or wrong. It's hard to debate on the premise that it's bad for the animal. We know of many venomoids who live long lives and appear to be in perfect health in terms of behavior and feeding response if the procedure is done properly. We also know of hatchet jobs where the animals were subjected to cruel practices. I know of just as many fully hot animals that were given very sub par care because the owners were scared to death of them. These animals, too, suffered. Does that make it any more or less right that these folks didn't keep a venomoid (even though they shouldn't have kept anything at all)? What about the many full hot animals being sold as fresh imports. Is it right to just pluck them right from the wild and subject them to weeks or months of cruel conditions just so that someone can pluck them inside a cage for their own selfish gain? Not saying it's right or wrong but its a very complex issue full of environmental ethical overtones.
You're 14 so you are just a youngster still learning a lot (consider yourself fortunate). It's a very complex issue and to just single out an advertisement w/out any real argument puts you in a position to be criticized just a tad.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL
www.thegrassisrattling.com
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RE: cobra jason venomoid (again)
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by milksnakegreg on March 8, 2007
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i was not trying to critisize but i was trying to bring it up politely so that it was not brought up by someone like the man who harrased irish viper and now im pretty sure he stopped posting and using this site. i know kids who are 14 and really smart. there are also "30" year olds who are complete and udder asses and you have no right to tell me im to young to voice my opinions
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RE: cobra jason venomoid (again)
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by dale3833 on March 8, 2007
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Hey, Kid, he's not saying that. He simply brought up valid points to this issue. Your response was not called for. You need to chill out a little bit. As far as venomoids go, I know what he means. When I used to deal in hots more than anything else, I'd get venomoids in on trade. A few that I had were great. I still see 3 of them on a regular basis, and they are doing awesome. Now, on the other hand, I've seen hatchet jobs that were just simply sad. It just depends on who did the procedure. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Don't start attacking people on here about it. If you want to grow in this hobby/profession, you need to make good contacts with people that like and trust you. By you going out there and attacking people, that just looks poorly on you and people will not work with you.
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RE: cobra jason venomoid (again)
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by milksnakegreg on March 8, 2007
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i was not attacking him but that is like saying old people dont need to learn "Nothing like having a 14 year old giving a 30+ year old some advice:-)" i was just defending my actions so if it looks like i was atacking him im sorry but i was just trying to give the man above a friendly tip and he turns it around like im doing a crime or something when i am just trying to help jason. if there is something wrong with a young person doing that then let me know.
sorry for the mix up
Greg
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RE: cobra jason venomoid (again)
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by Buzztail1 on March 8, 2007
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Once again.
As I have said before:
Just because someone posts an ad on this site does not mean that they read or care about what is written on the forum pages.
It is not against the advertisement policies of this site for anyone to sell venomoids.
Nor is it required for them to explain a) why they are selling the animal b) why it was made a venomoid c) whether or not they were the ones who made it a venomoid etc.
If you do not like venomoids, then do not buy them. You can add momentum to this action by choosing not to buy anything from vendors who sell venomoids. That is your choice.
Until the laws change, it is still legal to buy and sell venomoids in many parts of the country and therefore the ad is legal.
Please do not harrass the legal vendors on the forum. You may choose to voice your opinions and you may choose to contact them via email.
If anyone wants to run the classified ads section of the website, they can certainly choose to contact Chris Harper and ask him about it. I doubt that the position is open.
Karl
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RE: cobra jason venomoid (again)
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by hoyta on March 12, 2007
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Not sure whats changed, but it always seemed like people on here would flame the ones with venomoids for sale-
It used to be that people were against them being on the classifieds, now everything had changed. I understand that people have the right to post freely in the classifieds, as long as its herp related. I'm sure most people on here are against venomoids, and if you aren't, you don't need to be keeping hots, plain and simple! I kinda agree with you milksnake, no matter what your age is. There ARE alot of people on this site that are very immature for their age, and show it repeatedly!
Like I said, it seemed as though adds with venomoids in it were always deleted in the past.....
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RE: cobra jason venomoid (again)
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by hoyta on March 12, 2007
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"Suppose these spitters/venomoids were given the finest in care during the procedure from a qualified veterinarian who spared no expense in proper anesthesia, implants, pain meds, sterility, etc. Is that still wrong?"
Yes, its screwing with nature, and has no real purpose! Whats the purpose? Is it so that people who are scared of true hots can now keep them? Maybe so that people can use them in shows? I'm not sure, but it seems like plain mutilation to me, no matter how much expense is spared... Honestly, if there is a valid point for keeping venomoids, someone say it! Maybe I'm missing something...
Oh yeah, I'm not implying that you support venomoids, Rob. I was just answering the questions in your post:)
There are all types of animals that are kept in sub-optimal conditions, not just hots...
as for the wild-caught thing, most of us wouldn't have anything we have today, except natives, if it wasn't for wild caught animals. The only arguement that I could put up for why its ethically ok is that we could captive-breed species that are in danger of going extinct, due to many reasons, and possibly re-introduce them into the wild at a later date. Chances are it won't happen (hogg's island boas, for example), but its a good arguement:)
I know my opinion won't stop venomoids from happening- I'm sure people will continue to post them in the future.
OK, I've drug this one out now
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