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Residents frustrated over rattlesnake relocation p
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by tigers9 on April 1, 2008
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Does anybody know where I cad find this study?
Z
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<snip>Reptile expert Jude McNally is with the University of Arizona. He conducted a study on rattlesnakes a few years back.
McNally says, "More than half of the snakes died in the first two years if they were relocated greater than two miles away from where they were picked up."
<snip>
http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=8099919&nav=HMO6HMaY
David Marino Reports
Residents frustrated over rattlesnake relocation policy
Posted: April 1, 2008 08:14 AM PDT
With temperatures warming up in the Old Pueblo, rattlesnakes once again slither out of hiding.
In the Tanque Verde area, Rural Metro fire is responsible for removing and relocating the rattlesnakes whenever they get a call.
But residents living near Houghton and Prince say some of those snakes are being moved to their neck of the woods, causing a big headache.
Jim Gaul says he's stumbled upon several rattlesnakes on his property.
"I had one in my workshop that was staring me right in the face."
Gaul adds, "When they pick up a snake and drop it in our neighborhood they're introducing problem snakes; they're disoriented and they're scared."
His kids have even found them hiding in the hen house.
Kendall Gaul says, "There was a baby rattlesnake... We didn't see it. We walked right past it and then it was blocking the door."
The rattlesnake problem isn't confined to Jim's property. His neighbors have also had their own encounters.
Leslie Holz lost her daughter's pony to a snake bite. "They need to find a spot where they can dump these where there are not kids or pets."
Rural Metro is in charge of removing rattle snakes in the area. But officials say they can only re-locate a rattle snake up to two miles from where it was found.
Rural Metro's Anne-Marie Braswell says, "If you remove the snake and take it too far away from where you found it, we've been told by reptile experts, that the snake will die."
Reptile expert Jude McNally is with the University of Arizona. He conducted a study on rattlesnakes a few years back.
McNally says, "More than half of the snakes died in the first two years if they were relocated greater than two miles away from where they were picked up."
Although residents say they understand Rural Metro has a protocol to follow, they worry that the rattlesnakes will keep slithering their way back onto their property.
Rural Metro officials say they release the rattlesnakes in unpopulated areas and never try to put residents in harms way.
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RE: Residents frustrated over rattlesnake relocati
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by LarryDFishel on April 1, 2008
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"More than half of the snakes died in the first two years if they were relocated greater than two miles away from where they were picked up."
I've heard similar statements, minus the two-year time frame, but I have not seen the studies specifically.
This statement really makes me wonder though...what does the author think the typical life expectancy of a wild rattlesnake is? Is a 50% mortality over 2 years significantly worse than normal? It can't be much worse than for a snake left in a neighborhood?
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RE: Residents frustrated over rattlesnake relocati
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by earthguy on April 1, 2008
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Z,
I couldn't get my hands on the paper itself, but try contancting the author:
Jude McNally 3723 N Nash Creek Ct 85745. 626-6230 mcnally@pharmacy.arizona.edu
He is aparently a member of the Arizona Herpetological Society and has a chapter in the book "Biology of the Vipers". Most of the work of his that I found revolved around antivenin studies (note the pharmacy extension on his e-mail). He may be an interesting addition to SHHS if he is so inclined when you contact him.
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RE: Residents frustrated over rattlesnake relocati
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by tigers9 on April 1, 2008
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Thanks, I just emailed him asking for his paper as well as sending him link to this thread.
Z
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RE: Residents frustrated over rattlesnake relocati
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by Cro on April 1, 2008
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I am always a bit concerned when I see articles that state snakes and reptiles can not be relocated.
Heck, we have Burmese Pythons in the Everglades that were re-located from Malaysia, and according to some in the USFWS, are thriving and are gonna spread to California, LOL.
But we can not re-locate a western rattlesnake 2 miles ? Bunk !
And what about those Boiga irregularis in Guam ???? That was more than 2 miles was'nt it ?????
And there have been dozens of successful transplants of Gopher Tortioses from one area to another.
These studies that say that snakes can not be relocated are very suspicious to me.
Dr. William Brown and Randy Stechert relocated Timber Rattlesnakes from overpopulated dens in N.Y. to old dens that had been wiped out, that were miles away. And the snakes they re-located took hold at the new den sites and have been living there for years. Where are all the terrible diseases that were transferred in doing that ?????
All this stuff about not moving snakes from one habitat to another because of potential zoonose diseases is a bit suspect. Sure, there might be some transfer of micro flora from one population to another. However, does that justify leaving a snake to be squished by a bulldozer in the site of a future wallymart parking lot ? Or does that justify not re-locating it from some persons backyard before they chop it to hamburger with a hoe ? I do not think so.
If you leave the snakes there, or gopher tortioses there, or crocodilians there, they are gonna be dead by way of bull dozer, or homeowner......
I would much rather give them a fighting chance in a new suitable habitat, where they might surely have to fight for a position in the available resources, than condemn them to death at the tracks of a developers bull dozer or a redneck with a shovel or hoe.
Habitats have a way of balancing out. If there are resources to support the new introduced animals, they will make it. If they are not enough, they will move or starve.
Still, this is better than being squished by a bull dozer or chopped to pieces by a shovel.
Folks get all bent out of shape that a re-located herp might transfer a reptile disease to a new area.
However, those same folks dont care a whit if the resently transplanted person from Zimbabway brings EBOLA or MONKEY POX in as he arrives at Hartsfield.
The CDC is allready predicting a new plague of zoonose diseases in the next few years, as humans who live on the Equater move into previously un-inhabited areas. They expect folks there to contact animal diseases by eating those animals, or collecting those animals for the pet trade. And those folks and animals are only a plane flight away from bringing their latest disease to the humans in this country.
You folks who want to whine about someone moving a rattlesnake from one area in its range to another area in the same range, maybee a mile or two, are just wrong. If you leave it where it was, the citizen who called you is gonna kill it. Dead is Dead. If you catch and release it, at least it has a chance. Perhaps you are lazy and will drop it into a habitat that is allready at carring capacity, but perhaps you will not. Perhaps you will make an effort to find a suitable habitat to re-locate it to.
Hope some of you nit-whits who are trying way to hard to be joe ecology think about this a bit.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Residents frustrated over rattlesnake relocati
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by Cro on April 1, 2008
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Also, this dude Jude McNalley, says: "More than half of the snakes died in the first two years if they were relocated greater than two miles away from where they were picked up."
Well, dosent that mean that the other half did not die in the first two years ????
And who knows what kind of suitable habitats this clown was releasing the snakes into???? Was he going out of his way to find similar habitats to re-locate them to ? I think not !
And dosent that mean that we should find places to re-locate them that are closer than 2 miles ?????
50% survival for a re-located snakes is pretty good odds, all things considered. Way better than 100% death due to home owner or bull dozer, LOL .
I have re-located about 25 Copperheads from a nearby road. And have released them all in a river flood plain 1000 feet from that road. I have never seen any of them again. I would suspect though that most of them are still alive. When I flip boards and tin there, I still find active mouse nests. That tells me that there are still not enough snakes in this area to deal with all the rodents here. If the area was overpopulated with snakes, do you think I would be finding active mice nests there ?????
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Residents frustrated over rattlesnake relocati
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by hapkidocrochunter on April 2, 2008
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i am a member of the az herp association and we had a guest speaker at one of our meetings, and it was a lady named Ericka Novak. She works at the USGS and is getting her Ph.d in Bio. She did a study on the relocating of rattlesnakes and how if moved beyond 2k, they usually have a 55% mortality rate. very interesting study. She did her studies at montauzemas castle, and other national parks. Her study said too, that in the 30 years that Mont. Castle as been open, and they get over a million visitors a year, that is about 30 million people, there has been only 2 rattlesnake bites there. One was from a biologist working for here, attempting to pit tag an atrox, and one was a little kid who went off trail and stepped on it. During her masters degree studies, she said they had over 1700 snakes there that they were studing, and over the 3 years for her masters, park rangers and guests, only spotted 4.
Both of the bites were legitimate bites. The snakes were being harassed. This proves that humans and snakes can co exist. Well, at least it proves to me that 30 million people over 30 years and only two bites.. thats pretty amazing.
im sure if you were intrested in her study, by googling her name would bring it up. if not, let me know and i could prob. get you a copy of it, as it was passed out during our meeting.
matt
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RE: Residents frustrated over rattlesnake relocati
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by hapkidocrochunter on April 2, 2008
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I understand people don't want these guys on there porches and stuff, but Americans are always <at least out in az> wanting bigger houses, with desert views. well captain intelligent, with desert views comes desert wildlife. These things should be thought about before moving farther and farther out. Then complaining that these snakes, which have used these migration patterns for thousands of years, are just gonna stop cause there is a stucco house in the way.
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RE: Residents frustrated over rattlesnake relocati
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by tigers9 on April 9, 2008
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I contacted the co-author of the paper Mr. Jude McNally and he was kind enough to send me PDF file of the paper mentioned in the article.
Magazine 'Biology of the Pit Vipers' owns the copyright so i have to get permissison to upload on REXANo website from them.
If any of you want the 2.5 megabyte PDF file, I can send it to you privately for personal use, email me at tigers9@cox.net
Zuzana
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RE: Residents frustrated over rattlesnake relocati
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by tigers9 on April 9, 2008
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regarding Matt's from AZ post, yes, Erica Nowak is another co-author of the paper, third oen is Trevor Hare
Z
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