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upstate s.c snakes
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by trediggy on July 22, 2008
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I've ran into a lot of black rat's and banded water do either make good pets if not why? what are some other snakes common to the upstate?
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RE: upstate s.c snakes
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by earthguy on July 22, 2008
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Black rat snakes, with appropriate handling, tend to calm down and make pretty good pets. I have also seen some really nice color variations in the upstate for that species. In my experience (and I sure someone will disagree here) any member of the genus Nerodia is born with a bad temper that only gets worse. They're pretty, but their attitude generally isn't. I have also seen plenty of nice king snakes in the upstate, and they are excellent pets.
Just remember that any snake that you remove from its natural surroundings is a genetic loss to the population, and you are responsible for its life. NEVER let a snake loose after you have kept it for any length of time, as this can cause issues with the wild population (better to be safe than sorry).
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RE: upstate s.c snakes
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by pitbulllady on July 22, 2008
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I keep both Black Rats(and the "Greenish" intergrade phase, which are more common where I live than the true Black Rats)and various Nerodia. Rat Snakes are probably among the best "pet" snake species, since they calm down quickly, do not require specialized care, like heat lamps, and feed voraciously on rodents. Most will readily take to f/t food. Their color-or rather, the lack thereof-is probably the only thing keeping Elaphe obsoletta from being one of the most popular pet snakes.
I have to disagree with most people's assessments of Water Snakes, though. Nearly all of them I've had-and that's a LOT-tame down very quickly. This is especially true of Nerodia fasciata, the Banded Water Snake, though I've had a lot of big Red-Bellies that were puppy-dog tame, too. They are a more difficult group of snakes to keep, though, than the Rat Snakes. They need to have a large soaking bowl, and high humidity, BUT great care must be taken to keep their enclosure clean and not wet, otherwise they will develope severe skin infections. Then, there's the feeding; as the name implies, most feed on aquatic animals, fish and frogs especially. They have a high metabolism, and must eat more frequently than similar-sized snakes, and of course, they poop a lot more, too, so cage cleaning will be more frequent. I've had a lot of luck switching Bandeds over to rodents, using scenting, and I've had some that will take fresh catfish "nuggets" from the supermarket, but most stick stubbornly with live Shiners, and the bigger the snake, the bigger the fish, and the more expensive those fish will be. They can be very rewarding pet snakes, but Water Snakes are a lot more work than most snakes. If you're wanting a good native SC snake as a pet, a Rat Snake, Corn Snake, or Eastern King is probably your best choice.
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RE: upstate s.c snakes
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by theemojohnm on July 22, 2008
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I have to completely agree with pitbulllady in regards to Nerodia!
Most of the time, yes, they are wound up and not hesitant to bite. But my favorite snake native to my area is Nerodia sipedon sipedon or the "Northern Watersnake" (closely related to the midlands and bandeds as the whole genus is pretty similar except for color and patern variations).
They are TOO COMMON around where I live. LOL.
That last post covers just about everything! Great info, that I myself could not have put better!
With most species I would hardly call myself an "expert", but Nerodia is my thing!
Skin problems are amoung the most common mistakes that are easily avoided. A WET CAGE IS BAD! They are "water snakes", but I would say at least 65-70% of the cage should stay dry at all times. They are very "messy" snakes and after a week the cage smell can be pretty nasty, so frequent cleanings are a MUST.
Frogs and fish are about all you will get a wild caught specimen to eat at first, as stated in pitbulllady's last post, but I try to give mine more frogs than fish because of the more balanced nutrition and healthier responses I notice when feeding a more amphibian diet. Although, they do love fish and being suited to an aquatic environment they seem to metabolize fish much better than say garter snakes who also love fish.
I have several large Northerns that I feed small mice ocassionally aswell. Its hard to get them switched at first, but if you sent the mouse with a frog they ussually come around, and will accept them readily.
They dont seem to have a problem with dead food items either as they scavenge alot in the wild. (Although young Nerodia are fairly dependant on movent to stimulate a feeding response)
With wild caught snakes I've noticed that "middle- aged", medium sized snakes ussually do best. Alot of the big older specimens will refuse to eat for long periods of time and "depression" is evident; they've just spent too long in the wild to adapt to a tank.
Neonates are a hassle somtimes too, seeing as how they'd rather shoot all over the place than want to eat.
Medium sized specimens that are still young often adapt pretty well, and I have 5 Northerns, 6 Bandeds, and 2 Midland that I can handle without worry (alot of each that I cant handle too however).
=====================
If you want a snake that you can "handle", I'd say the rat would be the way to go, but I love the Nerodia and enjoy their behaviors and catering to their specific needs.
If you decide on a watersnake, email me if you need advice on caging or feeding needs, sexing, whatever..
I would be more than happy to help and can allmost assure you that you wolnt be dissapointed.
shoot me an email if you decide to:
johnmendrola (at) yahoo (dot) com
Good luck with whatever you choose,
but as stated before, the animals have allready had
homes in the wild, so you are COMPLETELY responsible
for whatever snake you take from the wild.
~John.
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RE: upstate s.c snakes
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by trediggy on July 22, 2008
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i used to keep wild snakes i caught when i was a young kid but now i see it different i show them to my kid and let them on their way. thanks for looking out though
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RE: upstate s.c snakes
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by theemojohnm on July 22, 2008
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Good, although I do keep snakes I catch ocassionally, all of my snakes are captive bred, or purchased from shows. Except for one red Phase Northern Watersnake which I am trying to breed the bloodline.
All of my banded, midland, and northern watersnakes (with the exception of the one red), I have bred from wild caught parents.
Its allways best to leave them where they belong.
If you are interested in keeping any of the Nerodia genus, I have 12 captive bred northern watersnakes, and hope to have some baby bandeds soon too. The northerns are allready feeding on earthworms and small minniows. I have never made a shipping arrangements online, but I would ship a baby banded or northern your way at no cost except shipping, if you were interested.
I've got more than I need! LOL...
And, that goes for anyone who may read this post. - Not 100% on the bandeds, but captive bred baby northern watersnakes free to good home! LOL...
~John.
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RE: upstate s.c snakes
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by FSB on July 26, 2008
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Some great info on this thread... I've always liked water snakes, partly because of their pugnacity, and while they will defend themselves vigorously when first encountered (as will copperheads) they likewise settle down quickly and become very tame if given the chance. The red-bellied (Nerodia erythrogaster) is my pesonal favorite, and I think it's just one of the most beautiful of our native snakes, with its A&W rootbeer colors. I have one that begs for food like a dog. I feed it mostly large creek chubs, but it also loves frogs, which I can find easily on the road at night after a rain. I actually go for the ones that have been run over because (a) they're easy to catch, and (b) I like frogs and hate to see them squashed in vain. They should be frozen for a couple of weeks first to kill any parasites, but the snake really doesn't care what condition they're in. Water snakes are very messy, and will quickly befoul any type of dry bedding such as aspen. Gravel is better since it can drain, but you'll need to remove and wash it thoroughly on a regular basis. Lately, I've taken to a semi-aquatic setup for water snakes and cottonmouths, similar to what you would create for turtles.
Put about 2-4 inches of fresh water in an appropriate-sized aquarium and create a land area half the total area of the tank. I do this with an inverted plastic Sterilite lid filled with gravel, supported by bricks or small flower pots also filled with gravel. (I do not use any substrate under the water for easier cleaning). Leave a small amount of air space between the underside of the plastic lid and the water suface so the snakes can hide under there, much as they like to hide under the bank of a stream. Also provide some good waterproof hiding spots on the land area, which should be elevated high enough above the water to stay dry. Install a Repto-filter in one corner and that will help keep the water clear, with partial weekly water changes and a full change each month. The snakes will tend to defecate in the water, which can also be spot cleaned with a small net and/or an earwash bulb (you might want to trim the spout to make the hole bigger), thus reducing the burden on the filter.
However, if, like me, you are fortunate enough to have a creek nearby, the best thing to do is build a rock dam across it and create a wild habitat where you can attract (or release) wild water snakes. I have built up the population in our creek to the point where I can observe N. sipedon of all sizes basking on our little dam any given day, and I don't have to worry about cleaning or feeding them! I actually observed some breeding activity on the dam this spring.
The same goes for the black rats... they will hang around your house if you live in the country, and I get to see them with enough regularity that I don't really need to keep them. Several adults use the wall of my house as a hibernaculum, accessed by a hole in a rotted window sill, and I always look for them to be basking on the sill when the warm weather arrives. (However, be careful if you have a rodent-breeding operation, as they will definitely raid it -- see "Durned Rat Snakes" in another thread).
Black rat snakes are very active, and really don't take to being penned up. It's also a shame to remove them from the wild because of their great value as pest control. Some estimates have put the value of a single black rat as high as $200,000 over its lifetime in terms of rodents destroyed, and wise old farmers will not like it if you take any of their black snakes! However, they are certainly common enough in many areas, and if you must keep one, I have found that they seem to be much more at ease in a vertical set-up with plenty of branches to rest on. A larger specimen should have at least a 55-gallon tank set on end to be comfortable. Use clips to secure the lid and let the lower end slightly overhang the edge of the table for easier access. They also like to eat A LOT, so keep them well-fed if you want to keep them happy. They also drink a lot, especially after eating, and a heavy water dish of fresh water, resistant to overturning, is a must.
I think black and yellow rats and their kin are very cool snakes, much like our own North American versions of tree boas. They are very similar in behavior, and the young undergo an ontogeneic color change. Also, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but Amazon tree boas will occasionally exude a musk that is indistinguishable from that of black rat snakes. I wonder if there could even be some sort of ancestral relationship there, as the tree boas are much more primitive. It would be intersting to compare DNA....
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