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Talking snakes? Two questions
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by earthguy on March 30, 2009
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I got a breeder male corn snake for my daughter at the show Sunday. He's three years old, and a pretty good sized (although he's a little bit thinner than his 'wife'). Here's the wierd part. He croaks. It's not a wheeze (because my first inclination was respiratory infection) - it's a definite croak. And he hisses from time to time, but not in a defensive manner. He is by far the most vocal snake that I have ever had. I have observed him in the in his cage, and he doesn't make the noises - only when I'm handling him. Any ideas why he might be so vocal?
On a related note - how long does everybody keep new snakes isolated?
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RE: Talking snakes? Two questions
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by Cro on March 30, 2009
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Josh, I have no idea why your corn snake makes croaking sounds. Most likely though, it is not a good sign.
On a related note, concerning quarantine of new animals, longer is better. Many zoos isolate animals for several months, and take the time to do fecal smears and even blood testing, before they put the new animals in with long established animals.
One sick animal with parvovirus can wipe out an entire collection. And some reptile dealers are suspected of knowingly selling infected animals.
Newly imported or wild collected animals can bring in all kinds of disease, and can transfer that disease to other animals at the dealers shop.
A good example is this last weeks Repticon Show. A friend asked me if he could leave some reptiles that he had bought at my table while he shopped for more.
I told him sure, I would keep an eye on them. He purchased about 30 reptiles, and some of them were probably freshly caught from the wild. I let him use some large rubbermaid containers that I had to take all of those animals out to his vehicle. After he returned the containers, and left with his reptiles, I noticed that there were mites crawling on one of those rubbermaid containers. Mites that had come from some of the animals that he had just purchesed at the show.
If I had not noticed the mites, they could have been easily brought home to my collection of reptiles. But I saw them, and used permanon to prevent the spread of the critters. And I know that my friend will quarantine those animals that he bought, and will treat them for the mites before he lets them anywhere near his reptile collection.
However, this just shows how easy it is to bring in disease or vector animals to a established collection of reptiles. Not everyone who bought snakes from the dealer with the infected animals will do that. Many folks will bring the new animals home and put them right away into the snake room. And those mites will have a field day, with all that fresh food. And the keeper will find himself with a huge bunch of mites to treat in a couple of weeks.
Folks at reptile shows handle animals, and walk around with new pets.
Do any of them know if mites on the snake or lizard they just bought are contaminating the clothes they wear ? Do they know those mites will soon be spread to family, and other pets at home ? Most likely not.
The most I ever see, is some vendors having those hand sanitizer tissues or goop on the table. And some folks who handle snakes use that. I guess that is a start.
Anyway, just a warning for all of you folks who brought home new critters. Be carefull out there.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Talking snakes? Two questions
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by Rob_Carmichael on March 31, 2009
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John really nailed the important parts on the head. Ideally, you should quarantine new arrivals for 90 days and during that time, run several fecals and do a full blood panel. That's not always practical so it's extremely important that folks do their homework when purchasing animals - if you don't know the people you are dealing with, you run a very high risk of potentially disease carrying animals.
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RE: Talking snakes? Two questions
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by earthguy on March 31, 2009
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Thanks guys. I always keep new arrivals in quarantine (in a sepatate building), but I was wondering how long different people quarantined. Unfortunately I was unable to purchase from people I know this time. I guess the silver lining with that is that I may get to develop a new relationship with a good breeder or two. I guess time and quarantime will tell.
That leads to my new problem. I know that my short term memory is horrible (I blame contact sports for that) so I grabbed the cards of the two vendors I purchased from. My 3 year old destroyed them to make me a card (nice thought, poorly executed). Fortunately my spatial memory is excellent, so does anybody out there have a diagram of where each vendor was stationed? I checked Repticon's web page and didn't find anything. Cathy? Danny? Anybody?
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RE: Talking snakes? Two questions
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by FSB on March 31, 2009
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Josh - I took my 5-year old to Spartanburg and he returned with a small stack of cards, magnets, etc. from every single vendor. I still have most all of them somewhere...
I agree that 90 days is a good minimum for quarantine, during which time fecals (at least) should be done and the snake closely observed for any telltale signs of ill health. I routinely soak all new snakes first thing, and inspect the water for mites or other stuff that shouldn't be there.
Usually, when someone says their snake "croaked," they aren't talking about vocalizations, so you're at least ahead there. Perhaps he swallowed a frog?
I had a startling experience with a python vocalization when I was about 9 years old and had ordered a baby African rock. My mother drove me and a friend to the airport to pick it up, and as we were unpacking the box and pulling out the bag, we heard a clear and plaintive mewing, very much like a kitten, coming from inside the bag. I have never heard an African (or any other) python make this sound since - perhaps it's something that only neonates do. Has anyone else ever heard this? The snake stopped doing this shortly after I got him home and never did it again, though he thrived and grew to be about 15' long before I had to sell him when I went away to school (one of the worst days of my life).
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RE: Talking snakes? Two questions
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by Buzztail1 on March 31, 2009
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We use a minimum 90 day quarantine with a minimum 3 clear fecal exams.
I often wonder whether it would be cost effective to buy a discount microscope (and attendant slides) and do my own fecals.
The treatment medicines are readily available all over the place.
Does anyone else do, or consider doing, their own fecal exams?
R/
Karl
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RE: Talking snakes? Two questions
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by Cro on March 31, 2009
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I used to purchase surplus microscopes at very good prices from auctions held 4 times a year by the County School System.
Often, I could purchase a pallet of broken microscopes for a 20 or 30 dollars, and then cannibalizes them for parts, and build 4 or 5 working microscopes from about 15 broken ones. And they were good qualaty scopes, Bausch & Lomb, Zeiss, etc. I would sell four of them, and keep the best one for myself.
Now days, you do not even have to do that. You can get a microscope that works with your computer screen over your USB port. You will probably not find one in stores, but, they are available online.
Try Googling titles like: Intel Microscope, USB Microscope, Computer Microscope, etc. They can be found for under $100.00 and work quite well.
Something like that, and a few slides, and some staining and preserving solutions is all you really need to do home grown fecal smears.
Several good books are also available on the subject, and they can be found on Amazon.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Talking snakes? Two questions
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by Cro on March 31, 2009
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LOL, Fred, you said "Perhaps he swallowed a frog?"
I sooooooooooo much wanted to say that, but resisted the temptation, LOL.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Talking snakes? Two questions
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by earthguy on April 1, 2009
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It does sound rather frog like. For those of you who can ID frogs by ear it sounds like an intermittent Pickerel frog (Rana palustris). It may have been the stress of the show that caused it. He is croaking much less frequently now. I'm going to offer him food today to see how he does.
As far as microscopes go...I have a whole lab full of them. In fact, I have an entire micro lab (for running fecal coliforms, etc). My vet will run fecals for $13 a pop (or maybe that should be $13 a poop). I suppose I could do that myself, but I was concerned that I wouldn't know what I was looking for. Is there a good book "Identifying worms in snake poop for dummies"? If not maybe John could write it!
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