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RE: your thoughts..
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by FlVenom18 on January 22, 2004
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I would definately see if there is an SHHS member in your area to relocate it. Or just let it be and always watch your young one when they are out doors.
Joe
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RE: your thoughts..
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by Snakeman1982 on January 23, 2004
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I am sure you can find someone to relocate it. If you call the cops I am sure they will just kill it. I wouldn't trust too many animal places either since they seem to be untrained in the herp department. They know everything about cats and dogs but when it comes to any type of real wildlife they are clueless.
I am sure if you leave it alone though it will leave the area on its own. If it doesn't and you know that it would be easy to find, then contact a herper who will relocate it. But make sure it sticks around because it wouldn't be good for someone to take time out of there day to come to your house and find nothing. I have had that happen before, lol.
Robert
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RE: your thoughts..
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by HerpMan73 on January 23, 2004
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To Snakeman1982: Once again you've shown how clueless YOU are about "real wildlife". You show it regularly in your posts and this time I can't help but respond with the hope of educating you. Most/Many biologists agree that relocating a snake is a death sentence. Do a little web search and you'll learn the many reasons that make it a bad idea.
I agree that leaving the snake alone is the best option. Remove brush and wood piles where snakes and rodents tend to hang out. The original post is from a woman in GA. Venomous snakes are just one of the bonuses of living in Georgia. It's so rare that anyone is bit anywhere in the US, so just leave them alone. Bees and dogs are statistically way more dangerous.
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by cottonmouth on January 23, 2004
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For the crotalus horridus, that may be true. Most all other snakes will do fine being moved away from the area that they are found. Most snakes are found far from thier dens anyway and are hanging out for food or travel.
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RE: your thoughts..
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by Snakeman1982 on January 24, 2004
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HerpMan73:
I don’t care to respond to anonymous people not brave enough to reveal who they are so I will make this short. I have never seen you on this forum, ever, and have absolutely no clue who you are or what you have against me. Personally, I don’t care whether you (or anyone else besides a few) on this website likes me, that isn’t my purpose on these forums. This is why you won’t see me cursing, calling you names, or yelling at you while I respond to this, because I really couldn’t care less. In the past three and a half years or so that I have been posting on this forum, I have had disputes with maybe 2 or 3 people on here (none with any real caliber). My record on this forum is very clean and I don’t know of anyone active on this forum that has a problem with me (But even if they did then I probably wouldn’t care anyway since that won’t ever keep me from doing research or furthering my education anyway). There are too many people in this world for me to care what someone on the internet, who has ever met me in person, thinks of me. I have yet to meet a herpetologist that has ever had a problem with me; it usually just seems to be these enthusiasts that have nothing else better to do than to cause silly fights with each other. This is why most academics stay away from the forum world.
I am a very honest person, I speak my mind, and I also give the courtesy for others to do so as well.
This obviously has to do with me and not my answer because FlVenom18 said that she should find a SHHS member to relocate or watch their child when they are outdoors. You should have had a problem with that comment before mine.
If you read the ladies first post she said. Relocate or kill it? Which would you chose? This person obviously is not an expert and they have kids that they are concerned about rather than snakes. They probably aren’t nearly as concerned with the snakes around their homes as much as you and I. She was at a point where she seemed like she really wanted to relocate it. So I told her not to go to the police (obvious) and be skeptical about animal control people.
I said that the best solution is to leave the snake alone and that it would leave on its own.
You are correct that removing stuff out of the yard is an excellent step. But still nothing you said in your statement was new to any of us. That is fine of course because this forum is not about people discovering new solutions for problems. It is about people asking questions and the first person that knows the answer should help out by posting.
BUT YOU STATE TOO MUCH ANECDOTAL INFORMATION IN YOUR POST!!! You say that in my posts I express how clueless I am. Why don’t you explain this with some examples. Since no one here has ever heard from you before, why don’t you elaborate.
You state all these little one liners that everyone knows about. Like the fact that bees and dogs are statistically more dangerous than snakes. Well no joke!!! Everyone on this forum knows that, yet that is all you can come up with. You act like you are telling people something new. Why not emphasize on these statistics and put some numbers with your comment? The statistics on bees, wasps, dogs, spiders, sharks, etc… are very easy to find and something that an amateur person who doesn’t know much about animals might want to know so they can realize that snakes aren’t as dangerous as they think. Tell where you found the facts, why it is important to them, and how it relates to their question. Otherwise your comments are as pointless as your anonymous posting.
Just for your information, biologists don’t do web searches for the bulk of their information, we use journals and books published by experts in their field. Ever seen a scientific journal with a literature cited page which contained a web address? I hope not. The internet is not peer-reviewed, which is why any scientist that publishes in journals won’t use the web as a major source of information. This is because anyone can put anything on the web that they like, with the exception of Contemporary Herpetology which is peer-reviewed.
Why don’t you tell me which biologists believe that relocation is a death sentence. If that were the case then it would be impossible for anyone to do radio telemetry studies on snakes because once they were released again they would die. Well, everyone should know that is false. Although relocation does provide snakes with a stressor, it certainly isn’t as bad as you are speaking of. Tell me what books, journals, biologists, etc… that you get this anecdotal information.
I have helped on home range research studies on multiple snake species using radio telemetry and know very well the activity and life-cycle patterns of snakes. We find a snake, note its location, take it to a lab, plant a transmitter, release it, and watch where it goes for a year using GPS. The mortalities of any of these snakes have yet to include starvation or stress related illness. Mostly, any mortality that we have ever gotten would be road kills with a few being predation.
Scientists relocate animals all the time and I am sure that we all believe that snakes should be put back in the same general location as they came. But since we are so concerned about timber rattlesnakes, all of a sudden, and their ability to survive relocation, I’ll ask Dr. Steve Beaupre about it whenever I see him this Wednesday. I figure he would know since he is one of the world authorities on timber rattlesnakes.
And as far as you EDUCATING me. Grow up man. I go to a University and am taking 17 hours this semester, 14 of which are senior level biology classes. The people that educate me have doctorates of philosophy in their fields. I meet with scientists every single day and go to a lot of field meetings with academic herpetologists. If I needed to be EDUCATED about anything, I am sure that they would let me know and probably wouldn’t let me do snake research for the Nature Conservancy anymore if I were incompetent with “wild animals”, which I am published for.
This is very childish to complain over the internet at someone so if you really want to have a pissing contest, e-mail me at snakeman1982@hotmail.com . This is why I don’t post anonymously. So that if someone does have a problem with me or wants to ask a question, then they can and they will know who they are talking to.
Tell then,
Robert C. Jadin (<--notice the never anonymous name)
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by Buzztail1 on January 26, 2004
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My thoughts:
Gosh Robert, glad you decided to keep it short ;-)
Well folks, I don't want this to become too big an argumentative issue.
In fact, there are several Georgia SHHS members who remove snakes from peoples' homes and yards. Some of these snakes are relocated to nearby suitable habitat. Most of the published studies that I have read agree that relocation is not too damaging if the distance is small (1/2 mile or less).
The suggestion to remove underbrush and hiding places from the yard also has merit. One thing I heard about when I first moved to Georgia in '89, was that during the long, hot, dry summers, snakes will come up and coil up underneath a dripping garden hose connection to get water. Just something to consider when removing things that appeal to snakes in your yard.
In my home county, the police shoot snakes and animal control has very little experience. I made a point of advertising my name and number as free snake removal. I even travelled a couple of hours (one way) for a particular Diamondback removal. I am sure there are people available to remove any snakes you have a problem with.
Karl H. Betz
(currently unavailable for GA snake removal)
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by oleblazer1 on February 8, 2004
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not exactly topical but to add a little to what karl said and correct me if im wrong.after having limited experience with GA DNR,any one moving a snake in ga had better be sure their moving only venomous species.a nusiance trappers permit is required to remove nonvenomous and you have to provide an adequate area to return then to the wild.apsolutly no keeping of nonvenomous snakes is allowed in ga.make sure their not setting you up to get a little extra coffee money.also i am glad to catch venomous snakes in the pickens county area. thanks chris fitts
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Anonymous post on February 10, 2004
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Oh Snakeman!! Please won't you share with us what Dr. Steve Beaupre had to say when you asked him about this topic??
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