Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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viperidaefan
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July 4, 2002
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A teacher's plan to feed three unwanted puppies to boa constrictors during a high school biology class was stymied after complaints from some parents and tears from some students. Matthew Patton, a teacher at Bluestem High School in this southeast Kansas town, keeps two of the snakes in his classroom and sometimes feeds them during class so students can see how they eat.
Three puppies were donated Tuesday by Davy Harkins, a school board member who operates a shelter where animals are put to sleep for the local pound. Patton approached the feeding from a scientific perspective, Principal Dale Harper said.
"I'm not sure that he considered the sensitivity of some people when it involved what's considered a pet," said Harper, a former biology teacher. "Very few people have a problem with seeing a rat go."Harkins said he saw the dogs being fed to the snakes as something productive since they would have been destroyed otherwise. He is now trying to find them homes. "I see how many puppies go unwanted every week," Harkins said. "I hate to see any life wasted." Harper said there are campaigns afoot to have Patton fired but there were no violations and the issue was resolved without any puppies being harmed. "I think he does a good job for us," Harper said. "This just happened to be a very sensitive issue." Harper said he was told about Patton's plan for the puppies Wednesday morning by a school official who had received a complaint from a parent. Harper said he asked Patton not to feed the puppies to the snakes and Patton immediately agreed. Harper said he saw a few students crying. "When you have soft, cuddly puppies ... there are people who get real concerned," he said. Patton has been a teacher at the school for about five years and there has never been any serious problems with his teaching, Harper said.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by Viperidaefan on July 4, 2002
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I just thought you guys would want to see this...its this kind of stupidity that makes all reptile keepers seem like barbarians...How could this guy have not seen how everyone was going to react especially the kids? Hey, maybe this guy would like to be in charge of disposing of death row inmates,huh?(anyone got a large Eunectes he could borrow?)....Do we have some kind of award we can give this guy for doing the most damage to our image this month...he's got my vote...
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by skeeter on July 5, 2002
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You hit the nail on the head viperidaefan. If we follow his line of thinking, since death row inmates are just going to die anyway, why not make their deaths more meaningful. Lets feed them to crocodiles and sell tickets. We could use the money to buy land for conservation. And then if we continue in that vein, we could start feeding the catatonic elderly to hogs. And why aren't all those aborted fetuses being put to use? Dogfood maybe. If you haven't figure it out by now, the reason we don't is because it is barbaric.
As human beings we draw the line by assigning more value to the lives of one group of animals over another based on their level of cognizance, or awareness, intelligence, and degree of emotional capacity. I don't want to hear any hogwash about what primitive civilizations do. They are exactly that. Primitive. Advanced civilizations that have a choice tend to elevate dogs, cats, primates, dolphins, and the like to a status that gives them more value than lower vertebrates like rats. If you think a rat or snake loves you, you're deluding yourself. Dogs are deserving of at least some respect. If you are starving and you have no other choice, then go ahead and eat a dog. Otherwise stick to fowl,fish and hooved ungulates.
The idiot that was going to feed the puppies to the boa isn't in touch with the civilized world and has done much more harm to the image of herpers by his straight-logic line of thinking than he could have ever imagined. Logic is great, but as human beings we have to consider the emotional impact factor. None of us are alone in this world.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by Craig0104 on July 5, 2002
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wonderful!!!! more bad publicity for snakes. it is very barbaric to feed puppies to snakes. i think it is borderline evil. people can make the argument that rats are pets too. i, howerver have never fed any of my snakes live food. i can't bare to see a rat of rabbit suffer. i can't even imagine a dog. also dogs have large teeth and claws. people argue it is unnarural to prekill prey items, but i don't see these people hunting their own food.
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Foolish, ethnocentric sentiment
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by MSTT on July 7, 2002
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Members of American and European cultures have a deeply ingrained emotional belief that
dogs and cats are somehow more deserving of special treatment than any other vertebrate
mammal of comparable social and intellectual development, even when they are already dead. This is not a logical conclusion,
it is an emotional one. It cannot be defended as a concern about humane treatment; while
you will provoke a great storm of outrage if you suggest eating a dog or cat or feeding it to
another animal, very few people particularly care that a nontrivial number of dogs and cats
are killed and thrown away every minute. Employees of our government are in fact paid to do
this work with your tax dollars.
There is no question that our society officially condones the mass slaughter of dogs and
cats. The only thing we do not condone is eating them. This upsets people as simply killing
them and throwing them away does not. Why is this such a strong and irrational taboo?
Many of the vertebrates we eat for food or kill to feed to other animals are highly developed
socially, mentally and emotionally. But we are conditioned from early childhood to think of
these species as "pork" and "beef" and "hamburger" and "chops" and "leather", not as live
animals. Thus we avoid even thinking about their deaths or their lives. However it is
impossible to ignore the reality of the pet animals we see around us daily as living creatures,
so we cannot conveniently forget the fact that they would have to die in order for anyone to
use their meat. We do not like to be reminded that we are greedy meat eaters and leather
wearers who daily are responsible for the deaths of many animals whose flesh we eat and
whose skin we wear. So we respond violently and emotionally to anything that "wakes us
up" to the bloody reality of our consumerism, though most of us refuse to actually take any
steps to be less cruel or wasteful in our habits.
I think that the guilt and outrage that people feel over the idea of some animals being killed
for food is utterly hypocritical, unless they are vegetarians who do not wear leather. And even
vegetarians would probably prefer to conveniently forget the fact that in order to make
farmland yield profitable modern crops, a substantial amount of habitat is destroyed, many
insects and animals are killed and chemical fertilizers can have a serious impact on the
ecosystem for miles around.
I eat what I kill, and generally I also kill what I eat because I consider it more respectful,
more ethical and more responsible than letting other people do my killing. To me there are
not many things more dishonorable than killing an animal and not using every bit of the
carcass out of respect for the life you have taken. If we must kill dogs and cats, and the
irresponsible habits of many pet owners seem to make this inevitable, I feel that it is deeply
wrong and disrespectful to throw away their bodies and make no use of them. That's the way
I was raised.
However I wouldn't condone feeding cute wittle fuzzy wuzzy animals to snakes in the public
view, because the fact is that most people will react with irrational knee-jerk emotionalism
against snakes. Puppies and kitties are cute and snakes are evil, according to their firmly
entrenched Disney-movie beliefs. Never mind the fact that non native feral dogs and cats
have caused an unbelievable amount of damage to fragile native ecosystems, far outstripping
anything that the ophidian genus has done in known history. People are only interested in
cute and fuzzy and aren't generally smart enough to look much beyond that in making their
value judgements. So there's no point in annoying the unwashed masses; it really doesn't
teach them anything and causes more hassle than it's worth. There are better and healthier
food sources for your snakes than predators anyhow.
Regards,
TT
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RE: Foolish, ethnocentric sentiment
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by Vishnu on July 8, 2002
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I would like to suggest that TT is certainly correct on this matter.What we're dealing with here is"failure to communicate ". Dr.Timothy Leary had the perfect analogy concerning what is being discussed here. Reality tunnels.What you are raised to believe and your daily impetus,reinforced by people who think the same way,gives you your"take" on reality. When Animal Planet runs articles about the habits of rattlesnakes and pleads for them to be left alone and not wantonly killed.The reality tunnels of the snake -haters will make them go out and kill as many as they can find.In addition to that if they get the story and the mutilated pictures to the local paper,they will run it ,making heros of the snake--haters in the eyes of at least some of the public. Feeding unwanted puppies to a Boa or any snake in front of impressionable kids or adults,who will view this as unacceptable,is really asking for trouble.These people will blame the snake and I am sure some attempts to have it killed will follow.The only difference is in their reality tunnel ,killing a snake will always be alright and the death isn't complete until the gory details have been explained to someone who will find that disgusting.
There are organizations to protect puppies,kittens,etc from cruel and unusual deaths and this will most certainly be viewed as just that.I am unaware of any organization that will protect snakes from the same.
I am sure that some of this snake -hate and mutilation has some Freudian implecations.
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Logic
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by skeeter on July 9, 2002
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Like I said logic is great, but we aren't all emotionless androids. If the teacher was going to feed puppies to the snake, I'm sure he could go to the pound and pick up some euthanized animals, bagged frozen and ready to go. It shows extremely poor judgement to kill live puppies in front of a high school classroom. Though TT may not have any feelings for puppies maybe she can imagine how she would feel if they were whacking the heads off of rattlesnakes to make sandwiches with. 'Putting it to good use' doesn't always make the best argument when strong emotions are the counter argument. The rattlesnake roundup people could and do use the same line of thinkign. They make boots sandwiches and hatbands. But that doesnt change how TT would feel having to watch the slaughter.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by alkee42 on July 9, 2002
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That guy most be a retard to think that feeding puppies to a snake in school is going to fly. There are too many kids and people who love puppies and consider them next to humans. I suppose that this guy didn't realize that rats and possibly even FROZEN rabbits work the same and have better results on a croud of teenage kids. Besides being sadistic and stupid he now probably caused a lot of people to view snakes as evil and menacing creatures causing more piontless killing of snakes.
jeremy mcmanmon
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Missing some logic
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by MSTT on July 10, 2002
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Tell you what - if you can mass produce captive bred rattlesnakes to the point that they are overrunning and destroying native species, then whacking their heads off for sandwiches en masse would have some merit. The reality is that snakes are predators near the top of the food chain, and harvesting them at barbaric events like rattlesnake roundups is not sustainable use.
Assuming humane standards of painless slaughter could be established, I'd actually support using common captive bred reptiles for meat and skins. It's better than impacting a wild population. Any time you have a significant surplus of non native animals that are doing significant damage to native ecosystems (eg, cats, dogs, feral pigs), it is an extremely good idea to utilize them as a resource while reducing their numbers. Unfortunately our society is not rational when it comes to making such decisions; it is socially acceptable (though ecologically unsound) to harvest rattlesnakes, but taboo to do the same with the much more problematic, non native and destructive dogs and cats.
As for my personal feelings, I don't like to think of any reptiles being harvested by humans as luxury product. But the fact is that there is a commercial demand for such products and captive farming is a conservation success story for the species as a whole, so I support farmed alligator products and would support other farmed reptile products if they could be made long term sustainable use projects.
Regards,
TT
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RE: Missing a warm heart
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by skeeter on July 11, 2002
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MSTT the balance of nature is so screwed up that nothing you do or say will change it. Humans will contiue to clear cut rainforests, rednecks will always kill rattlesnakes and cold hearted individuals like you will contiue to feed puppies to snakes. As long as there are rats in this world I will not stoop to feeding puppies to snakes. Fortunately for this world there are still a few of us that don't live in an emotional void. Straight line logic that ignores suffering has never been good for humanity. I find it odd that you have so much compassion for the pain and suffering of reptiles but you have none for the 'fuzzy wuzzy puppies' as you put it. Do you have more in common with reptiles than mammals?
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Reading comprehension 101
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by MSTT on July 11, 2002
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Speaking of knee-jerk emotional reactions completely obviating logic, you seem to have missed something. I do not particularly advocate feeding puppies to snakes for two reasons. One is that this causes negative publicity because most people are like you, completely unable to function logically when their emotional buttons are successfully pushed. The other reason is that carnivores make much poorer quality food than do herbivores. may be infected with cross-infective parasites and could compromise a snake's health. I keep only venomous species, and none of these are really large enough to comfortably consume a puppy. So I've never done it, probably never will. Yet you are happy to inaccurately scream "puppy killer!" at me, simply because I've brought up issues that you find uncomfortable to think about.
You obviously can't think very clearly when your emotions are involved. My case in point. You aren't thinking at all; you're coughing up a knee-jerk response because something has made you feel angry and uncomfortable. Why not take a closer look at what that something really is?
It's easy to divide the world up into good and evil, warm fuzzy cute wittle puppies and bad evil snakes and rats. If you had a mind that was slightly more complex than a Disney movie, you might find yourself thinking harder about the real ethical issues around the killing and harvesting of animals for human use. There are many issues and considerations involved here, and most people seem to be deeply in denial about them and would rather become angry than think hard about why it's okay in our society to kill dogs and cats en masse but not okay to use their bodies for food or clothing.
If you are really concerned about canine suffering, I suggest that you take positive steps to encourage pet owners to neuter their animals and responsibly find homes for all the puppies they produce, contribute to your local no-kill animal shelter, adopt some strays, etc. But I'd guess that your concern is not actually about alleviating the suffering of dogs so much as your wanting to continue living in denial and screaming angrily at anyone who brings up issues you don't want to think too hard about.
Try thinking with your own brain for a change. Wake up. Figure out why you get angry to the point of irrationality at the mere mention of these issues, even though the person bringing them up is *not* suggesting that puppies are good snake food. Thinking rationally is the first step to positive change.
For instance, what do you think would happen if it were generally accepted that you were individually responsible for every life you needed to take? I expect that many fewer animals would die, and those that did die would not be carelessly killed or wasted. If the dog pounds disappeared and it was expected of every pet owner that they had to personally euthanize any unwanted puppies they produced, and serve them for Sunday dinner to make sure nothing was wasted and the life taken was respected, how many unwanted puppies do you think would be born? Ethics like that tend to increase the care people take with animals' lives, not decrease it.
What I'm describing here is a very old way of thinking, one that is much less fraught with greed, waste, careless killing and unthinking cruelty. The ethics I was raised with say that if you are responsible for taking any animal's life, you do it with your own hands with compassion and you waste nothing out of respect for the life that you have taken. I guarantee that if more people still followed these ways instead of taking the unthinking coward's way out, there would be much less casual cruelty to all kinds of animals, dogs and cats in particular.
What I advocate is responsibility and respect for any life you take. That means if you kill it, you eat it, so don't kill it if you are not fully prepared to accept this responsibility. What you seem to be advocating is an emotional knee-jerk response that isn't well thought through. You don't seem to object to dog pounds where cowardly people can conveniently let government officials do their killing, only to the idea of actually using the bodies of dogs that are killed.
You call me heartless because I follow the old ways - I eat what I kill and I kill what I eat. I choose to take that personal responsibility because I believe it is the most ethical and compassionate way to eat meat and use animal products. If I close my eyes to the actual killing and let other people do it for me behind closed doors and on an assembly line, how do I know that it was done with any care whatsoever? So in sparing myself the unpleasant sight, what I would really be doing is ducking the ethical responsibility and saying "I don't care how it's done, just do it somewhere I don't have to watch".
I do not think that it is the old way that is heartless. I think it is the new coward's way that is heartless. You accept any kind of killing, even horrendously cruel killing, as long as you do not have to watch or participate. But suggest giving these animal's lives the respect they deserve by using their bodies to some purpose, and you cowards start to scream and fuss. You think you're fussing about the killing, and you're not. You're fussing about having to think about it at all.
Anticipating your next emotional response, I don't kill dogs or cats or keep any as pets. But if I ever did feel that it was my personal responsibility to euthanize one, I would do it compassionately with my own hands. And I would certainly want to see that the body was not wasted, that it went in some way towards continuing the cycle of life, because that is how I show respect for a life taken.
If you do not understand this kind of respect and ethics, and your only moral code is "don't kill cute wittle fuzzy puppies cuz they're wittle and cute", you have a lot to think about. Go think about it for awhile before you fire off another knee-jerk response.
TT
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RE: Reading comprehension 101
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by Langaha on July 13, 2002
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Well first I'd like to say that I, of coarse don't agree in any way feeding the snake puppies. It is just unethical in the minds of the majority. Being a reptile enthusiast and passionate studier of herpetology, I don't agree in any way killing snakes for merchandise, captive bred or not. How could I consider that ok when I spend all my free time studying these creatures, and I have so much compassion for their existence. It is us herpetologists and enthusiasts that are the only stronghold for snake conservation and education. We should all be on the same side, and try to change the opinions of others about snakes, and help to conserve populations, through education. By studying these awesome creatures, all of this comes with the territory for me. I'm not gonna babble to long, so finally; I think that MSTT has sort of an extreme and unique way of thinking. I can see you have your thoughts very together on what you beleive in, and so I won't put you down. Every one is entitled to his opinion. However, I think it is unfair to call the majority of us herpers cowards, just because we support and help our snakes we study in any single way we can. After all it is our passion and all would be lost if we didn't. I think it is fair to say however, that eating dogs and cats is an extreme thought, and rather unethical in this world today. I'm not putting you down in any way, I'm just saying that your opinion is a bit different, although I see where you get some of your points, I can't necassarily agree with them.
It seems the teacher may not have been very "involved" in the herp world and science, to have done something like that. Almost like he just wants the snake as an attraction. I could be wrong though.
----Anthony
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RE: Reading comprehension 101
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by fizzbob7 on July 13, 2002
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that has to be the dumbest guy alive....it would have been better if the snake escaped...but he wanted to feed it puppies.....in front of whiney little girls who were obviously gonna object....domesticated animals go through a whole lot worse than that but thats just dumb....
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Ethics vs. morals
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by MSTT on July 14, 2002
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In response to Langaha's otherwise well worded post, I cannot agree that using puppies for food is intrinsically unethical. It may be immoral or unacceptable according to the culture-specific values that are held by North American and most of European society. It is certainly a bad idea for a number of reasons that we've already covered. But it is not unethical in the sense that it is an act that is intrinsically antisocial and harmful in every known cultural context. You could certainly argue that it is situationally unethical in this country because of the bad publicity it would generate for herpetoculture.
There are many living as well as historical cultures that value dogs as food sources. Calling their cultures unethical because they have different definitions of acceptable food animals is foolishly ethnocentric. American cultural values include many things that could be considered wrong and immoral by the standards of other countries. Would it be really fair to say that it is unethical to eat beef because the Hindus revere cows? Or that we Americans are loathsomely unclean and defiled because we eat pig meat?
Every culture has its own unique food taboos and restrictions, many of which make very little logical sense when viewed rationally by an outside observer. Every culture thinks that their way is the one and only proper way to eat, and other groups that break these taboos are disgusting, unclean, evil, cruel, immoral, cursed by the gods, etc. Every culture tends to regard every other culture's ritual taboos as strange, silly and irrational, while clinging tightly to their own irrational taboos and considering these to be perfectly logical and normal.
This ignorant, ethnocentric attitude is not limited to Stone Age pygmies; it seems to be quite prevalent among Americans who think they are enlightened and educated. The fact is that the majority of the folks who believe they are educated and rational are at heart rather primitive creatures of reflex, ritual, totem and taboo. They completely bound by the taboos and ritual beliefs of their culture and are both unwilling and unable to think or act beyond them. The only difference seems to be that primitive peoples justify their taboos with religious or magical reasons, and we try to justify them with science, even when the actual scientific facts are very much to the contrary.
How would you judge a culture that had an irrational taboo against hunting or eating an entire large class of creatures with only two or three exceptions by species? The class of creatures that they abhor are an excellent source of protein, very numerous, quite delicious when properly prepared, and are enjoyed by many other cultures around the world. People actually go hungry or even starve to death in some cases because they will not gather or eat of this bountiful natural supply. The exceptions to this strong taboo are conversely considered very good food and command premium prices, though closely related species are completely rejected even by a starving person. Would you judge members of this culture as being primitive, superstitious, irrational or just plain dumb? Think carefully about your answer.
The class of creatures I am discussing are arthropods and insects, and the culture I'm talking about is American. If you can answer rationally the question "Why don't I eat any of the good edible arthropods other than shrimp and lobster," you might have some business passing judgements on the food taboos of other cultures. Except that there really is no rational answer other than the admission than you are just as superstitious and taboo-bound in your beliefs about food as the average member of any other ethnic group with a different set of taboos.
Regards,
TT
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RE: Ethics vs. morals
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by skeeter on July 14, 2002
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Why do you think that it's okay to impose your personal doctrine of 'tolerance' on others when you don't accept the culture of the rednecks that run the rattlesnake roundups? Do you not think that a puppy in the coils of a boa will for a brief moment in time experience pain and terror? Why is that okay but rattlesnake pain is not? Contrary to your wordy arguments you cannot justify everything or categorize everything according to science, situational or cultural morality. At any point in time a government may decide that there are just too damn many people in their country and a few of them need to be turned in to pig chow. Would that be okay with you? Apparently absolute morality is not a philosophy with which you are familiar. Some things are wrong no matter how you try to dissect it. Feeding puppies to snakes is almost as evil as you are.
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Utter ignorance
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by MSTT on July 16, 2002
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Science, situational and cultural ethics is a fairly reasonable yardstick to judge most situations by. Ignorant, emotional, knee-jerk reflexes such as you are displaying are generally much less productive.
Is a puppy's suffering any more or less terrible than that of a snake's, or a cow's, or a pig's? What if the suffering in one case was the result of casual and needless human cruelty, and in another case was the result of a natural interaction between predator and prey in the wild with no human participation? How do the ethics of killing for food change when humans are involved? When is it morally right to kill, and when is it morally wrong? Can you answer those questions clearly, and relate those answers to anything you are actually doing in real life? I doubt you can. You just don't like it when people kill puppies because they are cute.
How much did that cow suffer so that you could have that hamburger you enjoyed yesterday? What actual steps have you taken to reduce the amount of animal suffering that you buy? Do you know or care? Again, I doubt it. Your notion of "absolute morality" is much too easy to define - it is basically that everyone else must follow your personal morals. It is wrong to kill animals that you think are cute and fuzzy and lovable, and okay to kill animals that you do not think are cute and fuzzy and lovable. Anyone who disagrees with you is eeeevil, even if we're talking about entire countries here. LOL
As for comments about governments who use euthanasia to dispose of surplus members of the population, it's been tried before in recent history. Attempting to equate the Nazi Holocaust to cultural differences in acceptable food animals is a bit ridiculous.
TT
PS - I can see why you're rooting for redneck culture. Since you don't like wordy responses, don't forget to say hello to your mother and sister today. From the quality of your writing, I would guess that you can probably manage that with just one word.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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Anonymous post on July 20, 2002
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Although I didn't have time to read all of the posts many were very well written with good points made. My suggestion is we feed the teacher to the snake and have the puppies, administrative staff, principal and students watch. I realize that teachers are underpaid-- but are they required to be stupid too?
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by GreenViper on July 21, 2002
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I like both snakes and Dogs but on this article i don't approve. The teacher who wanted to feed the puppies to the snake should be fired or not allow to teach that particular subject. I've had rats before and as my teacher placed a rat inside the snake tank and watched the snake go after the rat i was into shock but again it's mother nature. Theirs alot of Dog lovers in this country and if bunch of kids comes home and tells their parents that their teacher is planning on feeding 3 puppies to the snake that you know that theirs going to be alot of parents complaining to the principal about the puppy feeding business.
What the hell was this teacher thinking?
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by MAMBAMAMA on August 5, 2002
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In addition to giving snake keepers a bad name, it should raise some concern about this teachers psychological fitness as a teacher and the same for the school board memeber that "donated" the pups.
How could educators not know that this would upset not only school children but human beings in general.
I would take a good hard look at these two people if they were involved with my kids!!
Carol
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by mbslither on August 18, 2002
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Feeding live puppies to a snake in a government school is a foolish thing because the public reaction is entirely too negative and paints snakes in a negative light. Again. The teacher and the school board member now know this. It is unacceptable in today's USA. Unfortunately. (Probably unacceptable to feed dead puppies or kittens to a snake as well.)
A friend breeds purebred dogs for a living. One bitch had two stillborn pups. The friend gave the pups as food for a boa. Seemed reasonable to her, reasonable to me, reasonable to the boa. Feed the boa, feed the worms in the garden, feed the rats at the dump... take your pick.
The situation in the USA WRT unwanted animals in shelters and pounds is an outrage. There is no excuse for this hideous population explosion. My vet struggles to find homes for unwanted animals. There are always puppies, kittens, dogs and cats available.
We should be ashamed.
I hope this school fiasco sparked some serious discussion at homes in the area. About neutering pets.
Regards,
MB
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by Wolfchan on September 17, 2002
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Overall I must say that I agree with what TT has to say. People are too immature and too set in their ideas of 'good VS evil' and 'fluffy VS scaly' to handle something like that. Unfortunately, most of these people will never change.
The teacher should have chosen to do something like that after hours when there were no students present, becuase simple logic says that of course people are going to throw tantrums about it! Also, as TT said, herbivores are much better food. Sticking with bunnies would be a better idea.
Keep in mind though that a pet rabbit will come when called, seek your attention, and do many things that your average pet dog will. They can also be litterbox trained like a cat. Nobody seems to have any objections to the feeding of rabbits though......
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by reticulator on October 10, 2002
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I personally love Pythons especially P.reticulatus. I hate cats and would love to feed cats to my retics, or burmiese. BUT, the social thing and the fact that for some wierd reason the killing and feeding of these worthless shit machines to wonderful beautiful examples of herpetological perfection is somehow frowned apon, is at a loss to me. To think, a good use for a cat.(prekilled of coarse,teeth and claws you know) Alass, My wife will not let me and I think its illegal in my area. One day we will remove these social constraints and quit edifying this worthless feline. Untill then I will continue to purchace frozen rabbits and rats.
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Culture
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by Henri on October 15, 2002
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Hi, I'm French, and here the rule is that we eat anything that has meat exept dogs, cats and horses (uh, well, we don't tell it when we kill the neighboors dogs, but cats are really not good).
But we eat really everything in the animals we kill (exept frogs that are too smalls), even the marrow in the bones, the head, feets etc.
I mean traditionnaly, still in the country, but many animals we used to eat are now protected.
Some may be shocking, as exemples :
- squirel (said to be very good cooked in "daube"), now protected
- hedgehog protected but many farmers that use the same road every morning still take the ones killed by the cars to eat them
- snail and anything that has a shell (like oisters and mussel). We are not alone to eat snails (greks do it too but don't cook it the same)
- everyone nows that, frogs and that's really very good.
From the begening of the century, we also eat horse thanks to an associassion protectings animals, they prefered horses to be killed than to die working.
And well, I wouldn't mind eating a dog or a cat, my concern would be "wat about antibiotics in the meat".
So I think MSTT is quite right it's better to give a puppy to a snake (that's not barbaric) than to waste it, but the teacher still is completely stupid, he only has childs in front of him !
But when you see what some dogs look like, that's really barbaric, isn't it better to eat them than to keep them alive ?
For the same probem, in French classrooms, we can kill and dissect only the animals we are used to eat (yeah, that's quite wide !)
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Anonymous post on November 4, 2002
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I totally agree with MSTT. But if the teacher wanted to feed the puppies to the snake he was wrong to do it in front of the class. But if he wanted to feed the snake to the puppies, I wonder how many students would have objected!
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by DagNasty on January 24, 2003
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Hey, snakes gotta eat too. But I do think it was pretty wack that the teacher probably didn't consider how students and parents were going to react. Maybe he could have used the puppies when he was feeding the snake by himself. We still can't discount the fact that the snake has to eat to live. All animals do. And if he was able to acquire animals that were going to be put to death for no reason, then why let the life go to waste? I'd rather feed out an animal than just kill it and toss it out. We can't be such deluded egomaniacs and place one species of non-human animal above another because society dictates that it's "cuter" or whatever.
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by Bothrops_pictus on March 12, 2003
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Personally I'd never feed a snake a cat or a dog, I like them too but if a dog or cat was dead and there's no other food source for my snake I'd feed it. What Vishnu and others say about the vision of some people is right, for example, the pig is by far more intelligent than a dog and we don't have problems eating it but if I had them as pets I surely wouldn't eat them. All those who say that there are some absolute ethical values are ethnocentric in my opinion, if like someone said a government would want to kill people for food it would be bad, but bad for our species, nobody seems to care about species like the cows, pigs, lambs, etc. or species like the snakes that get killed everyday just because some jerk off told that they are the incarnation of satan. I feed my animals living quails and mice and guinea pigs (I've seen americans to get scared that we eat guinea pigs but before they knew them my ancestors domesticated them for food, here's another example of how relative this can be) I feed them living prey because they are wild caught and refuse dead prey, besides if I killed them they'd suffer equally or more than with my snakes and they certainly suffer less than with a cat, I have cats and I know how sadistic they can be with mice. About the teacher, he should have thought that what he was trting to feed the snakes is considered a pet and that he was not dealing with adults but children, obviously he's not very smart.
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RE: Utter ignorance
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by EMatt on July 10, 2003
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Pay attention, people. MSTT got it right, obviously cares more about animals than the people who whined about his statements, and his only logical shortfall was wasting so much time responding to people who apparently didn't bother to pay attention to everything MSTT was saying nor bothered to pay attention to their own heartless habits. And that logical shortfall was probably due to the fact that he really cares about animals and people.
The way we disconnect ourselves from the physical and moral consequences of our own behavior is a source of the greatest atrocities this world has ever known.
Yes, appearances are important (though often silly), and feeding condemned puppies to a snake in front of children of unknown persuasions was foolish. But what kind of people have the audacity to condemn making normal use of animals already condemned to die? They feed themselves and their ridiculously huge populations of cats and dogs on the flesh of countless animals bred and raised purposly to live depressed, deformed, miserable lives ankle deep in their own filth while laying waste our local environments, water supplies, and even antibiotics developed to save human lives. They build huge, largely uncontrolled self-serving industries and hire other people to take of all these unpleasantries for them. And then they cut their pets loose to fornicate unfettered in the streets, breeding more non-native, warm blooded, carnivous and blood-thirsty gluttonous mammals than this entire world was ever meant to sustain, and push the surplus onto people who have more cats and dogs than deemed healthy, and pay to have the rest slaughtered silently wholesale.
And while all this is going on unchallenged, someone wants to waste time condemning a person who would consider feeding a cat or dog (which are really so common and uncared for that they are literally cheaper than dirt) to a snake (which is so relatively rare and highly valued that you would be hard pressed to find one unwanted and sentenced to the pound)?
What are they? Stupid?
Do we need a chart or graph or something here?
Think about it: a cat or a dog
which in a month will need to consume and defecate much more than it's weight in animal flesh (which likely suffered miserably while maturing);
which in its lifetime is likely to harass and kill several native animal species struggling to survive;
which may even maim, kill, or infect a human child or adult;
and which is statistically probably going to be abandoned, condemned to die of starvation, hit by a car, rot on the side of the road, or trashed at the pound;
but not before it has the chance to breed several more to like itself capable of all the above.
Or a snake
which in a month will consume and defecate much less than its weight in animal flesh (which in my snake's case are mice breeding happier and healthier than any I've seen captive or free);
which, unless native to its climactic region, cannot harass and kill native animal species (and wouldn't normally be allowed by their owners to roam the streets and fields anyway);
which is highly unlikely and rarely has the opportunity to maim, kill, or infect a human child or adult (although I almost forgot that I'm writing to VenomousReptiles.org!);
and which is unlikely to be abandoned, condemned to die of starvation, hit by a car, rot on the side of the road, or trashed at the pound;
and isn't going to breed uncontrollably anywhere (except perhaps in Guam or Hawaii).
Open your eyes! Free or captive, most animals live difficult, miserable, fearful lives at the hands of people, predators, and parasites. Most animals do not live to maturity, and that's usually because some other animal (including their own species) will kill them and eat them. Canines and felines are by no means special in this regard. So what's the point in whining about it? By some of their logic we might as well do the whole world a big favor and exterminate every carnivorous beast on the planet including cats, dogs, and most people, so that no other animal will ever have to die to feed another. Is that going to work out for you?
So, some people keep cats and dogs with big warm-blooded appetites, and routinely pay others to supply them with cheap sources of meat, which means animals that typically are raised and mistreated in miserable conditions or are being overharvested from their environment. And some people keep snakes with relatively tiny cold-blooded appetites, and may just find it reasonable to feed them a few of those overbred, unwanted specimens overflowing the animal shelters. Is there really any room for a cat or dog owner to criticize such a snake owner?
The best you can do is at least make sure that the animals for which you are personally responsible (pets and prey) suffer less than they would normally. And it seems to me that snake owners have much more control over this than any cat or dog owner.
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by noga100 on July 17, 2003
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one should be very carefull when catogarising animalls into different classes due to their supposed intelegence or cognisance the are all human trates that we are truing to pass on to animals just because an animal can learn to throw a ball or do some trick does not make it more intelligent than another. predators are then also intelligent due to the fact that they can change their hunting techniques to suite different environs or animals that are being hunted. i guess it doesnot matter that the food these wonderfull puppies will eat when they grow up will most probarbly be made fom horse meat which i suppose u see as also being able to show "love" and "affection" to its owner and was at some stage some ones pet. i do agree that the reaction of people around should have been taken into consideration and maby discretion should have been exercised.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by DravenXavier on July 21, 2003
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I didn't have time to read through all of the comments, but here's my take on the whole thing. I do not see anything wrong with feeding a puppy to a snake, at least when it is a puppy that is to be euthanized. I don't really think anything the teacher did was wrong, except be insensitive toward the feelings of his students. He should have had the dogs euthanized first (the equivelant of prekilling a rodent) and fed the snake after-hours.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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Anonymous post on September 26, 2003
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You guys suck-at least the idiots that think it's okay to feed puppies to snakes. I think the better idea is not to keep them at all-that way there will be less need of antivenom because some idiot thought it was cool to keep snakes that have dangerous venom. Makes more sense to me than feeding pups to stupid snakes. You people need to find other hobbies.
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by najahannah on October 30, 2003
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What a concept ... Why the man could not think about the children in front is a mystery .... However good his idea may have been IE,feeding unwanted puppies to a hungry snake It was just plain stupidity... But the bitter truth remains the same .... Snakes have been evil from the day it helped EVE eat a tasty fruit :).... Puppies are a very crucial part in a child's growth ... It is the first connection to a different world for a children and come to think of how impressionable these kids are ... The teacher was on a path of no return ... If he was so concerned about the boa going hungry, he should have fed it a prey which is normally fed. But using a pup ( SO WHAT IF IT IS UNWANTED ) as a live bait was terrifying. The teacher should have some common sense ingrained into him ASAP. And I don't confirm the view I read here .. About ethnocentric upbringing .. dogs have a social status whereas a serpent doesn't .... Like it or not.... And if at all the pup were to be prey ... they have been so in a very private enclosure and not in front of sensitive kids.....
Love snakes :)
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RE: Foolish, ethnocentric sentiment
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by philcat136 on February 19, 2004
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"The ethics I was raised with say that if you are responsible for taking any animal's life, you do it with your own hands with compassion and you waste nothing out of respect for the life that you have taken."
I'm a vegan, *although that's virtually impossible*, but I totally agree with this point of view. Also, I own two rats, who I have developed strong bonds with, who trust me above others and show affection just like dogs and cats do... they are very social and affectionate animals. But I also respect snakes and natural predators. If people want to feed them mice or rats, those people in my view have an ethical responsibility to treat that rat fairly, and humanely euthanize it in a calm setting using halothane (I believe that is what it is called), available at vets. The teacher here was a moron to think that kids would be okay seeing puppies, LIVE puppies at that, being eaten, when so many in this society consider dogs to be "honorary people." (I personally feel that all animals including humans are equal souls, and in fact can be reincarnated to each other, but I know you don't so nevermind...) However, if these puppies were humanely euthanized, I would not have too much of a problem with the snake eating it. Animals and human beings both have souls, and sometimes we leave early and sometimes we stick around on this earth for a long time. It's not the animals' death I object to so much as the inhumane treatment, usually in the name of profit, that modern feeder animals, rats, cows, and everything else, undergo before their passing. I hope you don't discount all so-called vegetarians as morons or hypocrites, even if we are, because, hell, virtually all modern materials like rubber and the plastics that my computer is made out of or the metal that my pipes are made out of was manufactured using animal by-products. But at least I give it a shot. Hopefully that counts for something. Whatever.
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RE: Reading comprehension 101
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by gnomeman316 on June 21, 2004
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MSTT you really got to the point. Let me just say this ahead of time. I like dogs. but I like snakes too.skeeter,if you knew something about nature, you would know that if the puppies had any chance to eat the snake, they would have. I'm sure that dogs have eaten many snakes, some helped by their owners. you see things strictly from the point of a childrens television show. Anything without fur is bad! (lets use imagination to stop it..)Not that I would feed my snake dogs, first because he's too small and also because they not healthy. It is likely that the teacher was dumb though.Feeding furry puppys to an "evil" snake in front of people who actually do see things from the point of a childrens television show is a bad idea.
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RE: Utter ignorance
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by Kate on August 2, 2004
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I also agree with your views on the issue at hand TT but one would think that someone as intelligent as you seem to be would realize that critisizing other peoples' mental ability does not make you look any brighter. In fact, it almost makes me want to disregard your opinion as you're obviously just talking over everyone's head to make them feel stupid. Perhaps you're comments would be better recieved if you respected the others' rights to their opinions as you ask them to respect yours.
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RE: Utter ignorance
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by ALA_herp31 on September 22, 2004
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I agree that this teacher made a big mustake and that it dose blacken the image of reptile keepers.....but we need to ubderstand that if we start calling these ppl names we are no beter than thy are......i know it can make you mad but...we need to learn some restrant on the way we use our words.....useing the kind of words we use can damage our reputations as much as this guy did.....just my opinion...and just a sugestion.......happy herping
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RE: Utter ignorance
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by azazel418 on November 21, 2004
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just my 2 cents, doesn't the chinese culture use puppies as a food source?
it seems that this has touched a nerve, but hell, it does seem more productive to use strays, i.e. animals that are unwanted, and going to be destroyed anyways, as a meaningful food source? Rats, yeah, plentiful, but not much meat or protien. Rabbits, sure, I feed them to my Boas, and I own a lop eared rabbit. Hell, I let him watch, he doesn't care, and seems quite intrigued by the snakes still... (no, I don't let them play together!) Many people have brought morals into this, and sure, thats all fine. but these snakes eat anything in the wild, and many would consider that a steady ration of rats is inhumane to the snake. I'm not condoning what this guy did, but there are bigger issues. I've thought about visiting the pound for food for snakes at times, sometimes its difficult to find a steady supply of rabbits, right now my closest source is either to buy chickens from a swap meet ( what friggin disease may I transfer to my snakes!?!?!) or to drive almost an hour to a place that may be out by the time I get there... I've considered getting a mate for my existing PET rabbit, and using the offspring. People freak when I tell them that, too. it seems to come down to what an individual believes, and finds morally acceptable for their snake to eat, and thats a societal norm (maybe?) what goes in our culture doesn't fit in another.. I agree that this guy didn't think it through, and should have accepted the bible belt that he lives in wouldn't take that as being acceptable behaviour.
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by RedrumRattle on February 14, 2005
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Shit like this pissess me off to no end. What idiot doesn't realize that feeding something like a dog to a snake is going to piss people off? Also I must point out because it was brought up, part of our emotional attachments to dogs and cats is the fact we have used them in the past. As a hunter I use dogs on a regular basis. And cats are one of the best antirat devices around.
But all that aside, it should be obvious that feeding something like a dog to a snake will piss people off. Most people grow up with either a dog, or cat, or both in the household. Whereas we cannot wait to get rid of any rats we find. I have four snakes in my condo, some of my neighbors already bitch when I feed them mice or rats and think I am some kind of evil villian. I can only imagine what an incident or two more like this will do.
Not cool
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by herpitoligist on March 12, 2005
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Those dogs could have been adopted befor they were eatin. Snakes are awsome and I love to work with them but snakes need to stick with mice and rats (things that are over populating).
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RE: Foolish, ethnocentric sentiment
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by Val on March 16, 2005
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I totally disagree with what you said about rats being on the same level as snakes, and not being able to love humans. I've lived with both types of animals, and rats are definitely nothing like snakes. I currently have two rats that follow both myself and my boyfriend around the house, come when they're called, and even do a few tricks. Basically, they're just as smart as many dogs (maybe even a bit smarter than our lab!), and are very loving. They lick us like a dog would, and get excited when we come home. They're even trained to use a litter box (most of the time).
Anyways, I love snakes, don't get me wrong, but I think anyone that believes that the little guys they're feeding to their snakes are stupid or a lower order of life are sadly mistaken. Get to know your snakes future dinner...you might make a new friend!
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The full story
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by birdie_h84 on April 14, 2005
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I would like to ask if anyone cared about these puppies a year after this occured. I was the one who suggested to feed them to Jesse the snake. There were nine puppies originally. Three were killed by the mother before weaning age. Three were placed in homes. The other three were euthanized after spending their entire year of life in a kennel. The three that were placed were al euthanized within a year, also, due to aggression problems.
This was an unplanned pregnancy that we thought was impossible. Dad had saved Kate from the pound because he has a soft spot for English Pointers. We took care of her at the clinic for over a year, and she never went into heat. We assumed she was spayed (most dogs cycle twice a year). An unnecessary exploratory surgery is very traumatic to the animal, so we did not go in to make sure she was not intact. We took her to our home in the country, where she spent her days running free and exploring. She made friends with our neighbors' dogs, one of which was an intact male Beagle named Ralph. She didn't gain much weight in the two months of her pregnancy, and the first we knew of it was when we went into our garage to find her curled up in a blanket with all nine of them around her. We knew that we would not be able to care for nine puppies, so we searched for alternatives.
We had sold rabbits to Matt before when we had some small enough for Jesse to eat. We decided that the best thing for these puppies was to thin the litter. At the time that they were in the school, they were less than a week old. Their eyes and ears were still closed, and several of them already had wounds from their mother. They would not know what was happening and would experience almost no pain. Matt usually fed the snakes in front of his class about once a semester. He usually fed a rabbit at this showing, and though there were complaints, everyone understood that a rabbbit was part of this snake's natural diet. No one ever complained past saying, "But that one's so cute!" He never expected a problem with this.
From my experience caring for and raising these puppies, who were weaned at exactly six weeks, put on antibiotics because of the extensive wounds inflicted by Kate (some had nerve troubles until the day they were put to sleep), sterilized at exactly eight weeks, and raised in kennels for the rest of their lives (except their three leashed walks a day), they would have been a lot better off had Matt been allowed to feed them to Jesse.
If you watch the KAKE news broadcast where Dr. Harkins is interviewed, you night notice that Kate is being held in place in the box with her puppies. She never went near them unless we forced her to. They would have starved if we hadn't kept her in a kennel small enough that she couldn't get away from them. She was not a good mother, and her pups showed it. As soon as surgery was feasible after the pups were weaned, she was spayed and adopted by one of the kennel workers who had cared for her during her stay at the clinic. She is now enjoying the countryside once again, without the risk of another litter.
One of the puppies, who was named Emma after her adoption at ten weeks old, was a good pet for one of our clients. She was well cared for and obviously loved. Out of nowhere, around a year of age, she snapped at her owner very viciously, and for no apparent reason. This woman had been bringing her pets to us for veterinary care for years, and often came in without them just to talk. We believed her when she said that this dog wouldn't care what it did to her, and she was scared of it now. Emma was put down later that week.
I would like to once again ask the question: Who asked about these puppies a year after their "ordeal"? I would also like to ask: Where were all of these outraged people when these pups went up for adoption at eight weeks old? It had been less than two months since the world was outraged at this action, and everyone had already forgotten about them. I would like to request that the next time you step between nature and nature's food, remember to take care of the lives you saved.
Bridget Harkins-Handel
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by tony33 on May 9, 2005
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I dont believe that feeding live puppies to a large snake in a class room is humane. although i dont dissagree with the reasoning behind the act. it is a very logical solution to another major problem we have in the states. i love dogs had one all my life.i dont like to think of them being eatin yet i have been to the pound in a few lage cities where they are put to sleep we all know what it means "put to death" but it sounds nicer the end is the same with out the circle of life being compleated. having them frozen first "hypothermea is said to be painless" would make it easier on the huaman psyce. who knows? was the act it self wrong i dont believe so only doing so front of youth with out a concenting adults permission
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RE: Ethics vs. morals
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by Arcticwolf on November 3, 2005
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What I don't know is, why would most Americans abhor the idea of killing a cow themselves, yet have no regrets dumping a live lobster into boiling water. Can't they feel as much pain as a cow or any other animal, for that matter? Sorry for being off topic but I just wanted to get that off my chest.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by Blah on January 21, 2006
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It scares me to think that there are emotionally-void people in this world who think feeding puppies to a snake is right. There's a difference between being TOO emotional, and not being emotional at all. Having emotions doesn't make you stupid, it makes you human, and if you can't understand why someone might be upset about seeing a puppy being fed to a snake, then something's not right with you.
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RE: Ethics vs. morals
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by Jeepster on May 21, 2006
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Actually, lobsters and most other invertebrates dont feel pain. Vertebrates and cephalopods (such as octopuses squids cuttlefishes and nautiluses) are the only animals that have the ability to think, feel, learn and suffer. All vertebrates and cephalopods have this ability, but none of the other animals or any other organism does. Vertebrates and cephalopods are the only creatures that acutally have a mind or cognizance. That is why animal rights laws only apply to vertebrates (most people don't come in contact with cephalopods very often). For example, if there is a wasp nest at the top of a 100 foot tree and people feel threatened by it but the wasps never stung anyone, people will come and destroy the wasp nest even if it is in a government owned wooded lot, but if there are over populated, stinking, diesease spreading skunks burrowing under your house, you will actually go to jail for killing them. That's why, contrary to my email address (which is very old), I hate all vertebrates and cephalopods and love all other organisms. I joined the site simple so I could post a comment in this forum.
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by Jeepster on May 21, 2006
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MY reply to Redrumrattle's comment.
But all it takes is a person to be raised differently and you end up with a person who wants to feed puppies to snakes.
I never had pets until I was twelve and I got some fish which I loved at first but quickly got tired of them when they didn't do what I wanted them to do. When I was very young I didn't have any feelings for any animals. Then in first grade a teacher taught us about rabies and said that all mammals could get it so I became afraid of mammals from that time until I was fourteen. Even after I lost my fear of them I still preferred reptiles, birds and other animals to mammals and I still think they are disgusting when compared to most other creatures. Now my parents didn't teach me this, they weren't even aware of this until very recently, but they also never me that I was supposed to like dogs and cats and value them more than other animals. So I went around most of my life time valuing chickens and lizards more than dogs and cats. I have noticed that our culture seems to elevate certain animals above others, but I've never been able to "get into the groove". I just cant understand it. It's not a part of me. And as most people know now, I love all invertebrates (except for cephalopods) and dislike all vertebrates simply because I can understand them better, and also because I hate the way people protect vertebrates so much. So in short, I have a very scientific mind, which makes it very hard for me to understand culture or emotions but easy to understand the robotic ways of the invertebrates.
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by Jeepster on May 21, 2006
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"if you cant understand why someone would oppose to puppies being fed to snakes then something's not right with you".
Hey! Look at me! I prefer invertebrates over vertebrates, insects over mammals, cockroaches over cats, the creepy-crawly over the cuddly, the slimy over the fuzzy. I have to wash my hands if I even think I touched something that a mammals mouth just touched! I could never have pets like dogs or cats in my house because the house and everything in it would just feel downright nasty.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by nuts_about_taipans on March 12, 2007
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That guy is the biggest retard in the world. Not only because he as gonna feed puppies to a snake, but because he was gonna feed them live! Why would you put the snake at risk like that? If a rat can kill a taipan that isn't hungry, why couldn't a proprtionately larger mammal like a puppy kill a large python? And even then, the dog's eyes were probably gonna fall out it's head because of the python's strenght when it squeezes. My hatchling diamond pythons routinely cause the mice they feed on to have all sorts of thins come out, be it blood, eyes, brains, etc. He'd probably be court martialled if that happened to the puppies in a school.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by whattagal on May 21, 2007
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I actually don't view this as any more cruel than feeding rats & mice alive to reptiles. It shows what hypocrites people are.
Why is it more wrong because dogs are a 'socially acceptable' pet?
Do puppies have more nerve endings than rats and are thus able to feel pain more? Do they have bigger brains and thus feel more fear and terror?
Not so.
Makes one think doesn't it.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by whattagal on May 21, 2007
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On further thought after reading the rest of the feedback:
We, as humans, are put in the position where we get to play 'God' over other lifeforms. What type of animal we choose as our preferred pet is the same freedom we get to choose friends and human companions. What is one's perfection is not necessarily anothers.
Sad to see that not one of the people here actually stood up for the humble rat...and yes in response to one person's comment- I do experience and love and friendship with my pet rats. I have had pet rats who will sit and do the rat equivalent of 'purring' while I scratched behind her ear, and then she would lick my fingers as affection, not just because I had food on them or something. This was pure unmistakable interaction as a result of closeness and friendship. Nothing that anyone could say would ever prove otherwise.
I have also met dogs who wouldn't give you time of day and are as soul-less as a stone. Yet I have 4 dogs and adore them, and I know they adore me. Their definition of love may vary from ours, but I know I have a friendship and a bond with them.
As for the kill or not to kill debate: It is inevitable in life that death happens, either by accident or we cause it. Animals die for our food and other needs, it is a fact. From country to country it varies, what is considered holy n one country is condemmed in another. There are holy cows in one religion, yet we freely kill and eat them in our countries (European), yet our own 'holy' animals such as dogs, are killed and eaten in other countries.
At times we humans will kill each other...on behalf of people we have never met in person (presidents etc). We create wars over things that animals could never comprehend and if they could, would surely condemn.
So it comes down to two things. Either the entire world becomes vegan (I can hear everyone going "Yeah right!" or we become duty-bound to at least ensure that we minimise suffering where we can, and at very least euthanise animals humanely before feeding them to another.
I have personally have had to assist in euthanasing creatures that I have no particular affinity for, nor fondness of in any way. I will go so far as to say I had an extreme dislike of them, but I could put this aside and respect the animal/reptile's life and their right to be humanely destroyed. That is, quickly and efficiciently. I certainly got no pleasure from it, but was relieved that their suffering (due to injury) or situation would end swiftly.
Meat eaters trust that the abbattoirs do this for them with cattle etc; we have people whose job it is to ensure that it is done humanely. We have more than a few means of 'voting' for or against practices: for example we vote with our dollars for free range eggs or factory produced ones.
In the case of this teacher: Anyone who gets pleasure from tormenting animals (or children, as in the case of this guy) should be held responsible for what is within their character to cause them to think that this is okay behaviour.
There is no doubt that the man should be barred from teaching. For not only does he disregard animal welfare, but also that of the children when he disregarded their psychological welfare.
Each should be accountable for their own.
We cannot save the world, but we can each do our own individual bit.
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by msjayhawk on June 20, 2007
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Will Rogers summed up the american psyche on this perfectly.
"If dogs don't go to heaven, then I want to go where they do when I die........"
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by khachdathinh on September 28, 2007
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I never understand American and European cultures. There are 5 words American and European people say before trying to solve any problem " me, me, me , me , me" so if anything comes up, they think for themselves first. How do i think about it? How do i feel about it? do i like it ? Have i ever seen it before? and there go, if they don't like it, never see it done before, don't feel good about it then OUTLAW it as its barbaric because they THINK its the RIGHT thing and don't care crap about what others thinking. everybody else who don't feel the same as we do then YOU ARE F**** CRAZY, RETARDED, BARBARIC, BLOODY EVIL and SHOULD BE IN JAIL! why are you guys so important? is it because you grow up in a box with windows and never interact with anything outside but 8 hours within a box then another 4 hours within a smaller box and you grow up just to outlaw anything that you have never seen before? you said you only feed commercial food to snakes. Have you ever see what food snakes eat in the wild? how is that making the snakes happy? When you see other people eating something that is not " Chicken " you think oh these people are so crazy, nasty, evil, barbaric...etc. When you see other people who enjoy sports you have never seen before you be like oh they are sooo retarded. When you see people drinking whats not "Coke" you be like Ohh they are so nasty. When you see people putting hands over their buddies shoulder you be like ohhh they are gay!...blah blah blah...here is the fact, you guys mind are so F**** limited inside that very big box call school and a smaller box call house and transitting between those boxes are smaller boxes called cars. You love to blame others, love to outlaw everything, love look down on others and love to be fat. others who live outside the boxes like yours don't.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by JohnnyU19 on June 16, 2008
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This teacher should have been fired immediately and barred from ever teaching, anywhere, again.
I wouldn't want this fool near any kids of mine. He
was purposing murdering innocent puppies. Anyone who has a snake for a pet is a mental case.
Anyone who has had or has a dog (or a cat) knows
that they are intelligent animals who develope a great
love for their owners.
That thing this idiot teacher keeps would eat him if it were large enough.
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by zaroba on June 27, 2009
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so johnny, i guess you think its ok for pounds and shelters to murder thousands of innocent dogs and cats every day and toss there bodies in landfills instead of putting them to good use?
you are a perfect example of somebody who makes assumptions despite not knowing anything about what goes on in the real world.
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