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Another thing....
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by AzAtrox on December 19, 2007
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"It goes as follows: Wally, you can talk to the Sheriffs in the County you live in, maybe they can give you the Permit to Keep Exotics that your looking for.
Now: Let me clarify something here. In the State of AL you can not Keep, Transport, or Offer to Sale any Venomous Reptiles that are not native to the State (what so ever). Yet this officer told me that I could get a Keepers Permit from a County Official that would never stand in Court."
According to your post, the Game Warden did NOT tell you that you could get a permit to have illegal animals...What he said is: Go talk to your county sheriff and MAYBE they can give you a permit...
This would indicate that he is not familiar with what your sherriff can or can't do, but it does not constitute a "go ahead" from him...Rather, it is a redirection to acquire more information from a different source...nothing more. He's saying in effect: "I don't have the answer...maybe you can talk to your county sherriff to get the answer"...That's all he's saying....
Legally, such cannot be construed as a valid excuse for loading up, nor can one claim entrapment based upon what he said....
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RE: Another thing....
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by tj on December 19, 2007
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http://www.venomousreptiles.org/classifieds/results
Type in DustinDraper.
He stated in his article that he hasn't dealt in venomous in awhile, yet had horridus for sale at the same time he was busted. Still think he was framed?
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by Buzztail1 on December 19, 2007
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Wally,
It looks like quite a few other folks have said what I would have said in response to you had I not been at work.
A few things that they didn't say:
No matter who you deal with - GET IT IN WRITING.
If you have a permit from the Sheriff, that should help you immensely in court. If all you have is a promise of a permit - you jumped the gun by getting the snakes before the permit.
If you knew that keeping the snakes was not legal and you thought a permit from a local official was a loophole - sorry, it didn't work.
I have posted and posted about getting everything in writing. I tell people that they should write to the state home office of DNR/FWC/whatever their permitting agency is. File their responses as if you were going to use them as evidence in court - YOU MIGHT HAVE TO.
I maintain a Florida permit (I live in GA). I keep a copy in my wallet, a copy in my car, and a copy hanging on the wall in my herp room. The original along with all the other correspondence I have received from Florida FWCC (including copies of what I have sent them) is kept in a file for safe and easy reference.
The basics have not changed since I started writing on this site.
1. Find out the laws for your local area. The correct way to do this is to contact the MAIN OFFICE of your state's wildlife agency - NOT your local wildlife agent.
2. Follow the laws of the area that you live in - whether you agree with them or not.
3. If you don't like the laws where you live - (here you have two choices) a. Lobby to change those laws WHILE OBEYING THEM or b. move.
4. A third option of disobey the laws and hope that you don't get caught generally doesn't work out too well. Trying to find someone who may seem to have more authority (local sherrif) than the permit authorities (DNR) to say yes you can keep venomous snakes isn't going to end well. Trying to say "they tricked me into breaking a law that I already knew about" isn't going to end well. BREAKING THE LAW DOESN'T END WELL.
5. Posting on this website that you broke a law that you knew about and broke anyway and got caught and are looking for sympathy and support just doesn't work out too well either.
Just my opinions,
as valid or invalid as the next person's,
Karl
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So I went to....
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by AzAtrox on December 19, 2007
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the classifieds and typed in Dustin Draper as tj recommended....I don't know what Dustin's idea of "awhile" is, but I'm sure a reasonable person would assume that it means longer than 3-4 months...I suppose it's subjective...
Either way, if I was a LE agent and I was looking for a reason to sniff around Mr. Draper, I'd need look no further than the classifieds in this here website...
Mr. Draper, I'm afraid you gave LE all the PC they needed to start looking into your activities...Posting "wanted" and "for sale" ads for prohibited animals on a public forum is a sure fire way to get eyes pointed in your direction...but I suppose that's not subjective....
Good luck with the case. (I think you'll need it.)
-AzAtrox
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Help! I've been set up!!!
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by agkistrodude on December 21, 2007
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You knew that picking up the snakes at the post office was illegal.You've been busted before.You said that he shipped them via U.S. mail even after you told him to hold off. Red flags should have been flying everywhere! I don't see any set-up at all, just a bad case of dumb-ass. MartyM
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by fizzbob7 on December 21, 2007
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for the record and in wally's defense, sheriffs have issued MANY permits to "legally" keep exotics in certain states. thing is, fish and game do NOT recognize them at all and that piece of paper is totally useless.
why is it useless? because it's totally invalid. do the sheriffs get in trouble over issuing a false document that you have to give them between $75 and $150 for?
no, they don't and implying any wrongdoing on their part gets you in MORE trouble. know those family photos in your photo album where a baby is playing in a bath tub of bubbles? those are considered child pornography. don't pay your fines and you are charged with it.
it's a lose, lose, lose situation. in some states, they (fish and game officers) may very well be worth their weight in gold, but in other states, people who keep snakes are godless freaks. the only good snake is a dead snake, and they'll tell you as much.
you are the enemy to them and nothing more.
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by frenchfry on December 27, 2007
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Simply stated: Ignorance is bliss, but ignorance is not an excuse, and hind sight is 20-20. Good luck.
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Help! I've been set up!!!
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by 91C2 on December 30, 2007
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I would like to see a copy of the indictment showing the charges and accusation. The number is disconnected.
Dustin, if you read this, please show the indictment.It's easier to help if we know the accusations
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by DustinDraper on December 30, 2007
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The fact of the matter here is this. Yeah I messed up by picking up the package. I was scared to say the least. I had been out of the snake business since the last incident. I thought before that I could have the snakes and just "hide out" until I could move. but this case is all messed up. I didnt want the snakes shipped and didnt know what to do when he said they were shipped. All I knew to do was pick them up and it didnt cross my mind to do anything else. I knew I was going to jail..... bottom line. I believe what that undercover guy did was wrong. You guys might not believe me and thats ok. I am not perfect, and I love snakes just as much as you do. If you bash me for messing up and call me a liar for telling my side of the story then you are wrong for it. I would help anybody I could if they were in my position. Snake keepers not sticking together is why we all get ran over so much by the government. Thats why the laws are so f-ed up now. I just wanted to let you all know what happed. Some of you I thank for the advice. Others I am sad to say think they are better than everyone else because they dont have to deal with this stuff and dont have the slightest idea of how messed up it can get. Thanks everyone none the less.
Dustin
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Help! I've been set up!!!
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by Buzztail1 on December 30, 2007
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Dustin,
Your situation is unfortunate.
Unfortunately, I am sure that there are quite a few people who find themselves in the position of "hiding out" because they know that they are keeping illegally.
That does not make the Law Enforcement Officers bad guys when they catch you.
While I can understand that you were scared and didn't know what to do, you also knew that you would take the fall if you picked them up and you did it anyway.
Just so you don't misunderstand my position on it, if someone tells me that they mailed me venomous snakes through the USPS, a Law Enforcement Officer will be there to pick up the snakes that were sent to me so that he can charge the correct person - the one who mailed them (there is nobody here that I am going to go to jail for)!
Nobody is perfect.
I don't think anybody has called you a liar although many disagree with your idea of being out of herps "for awhile." That's just differing opinions on the passage of time.
This one statement though:
"Snake keepers not sticking together is why we all get ran over so much by the government. Thats why the laws are so f-ed up now."
Sorry but I really disagree with that.
Breaking the law is why you got run over by "the government".
Because I choose not to break the law and keep illegally does not make me think that I am better than you. It does mean that I don't have DNR Officers waiting for me to get home or barging into my home to search for illegal animals. So, no, I "don't have to deal with this stuff" although I do have a pretty good "idea of how messed up it can get."
I have no idea how your case will wind up but I do wish you well. I think your article might have been better presented as a "Here's how I messed up - make sure you don't do the same thing." than "Help! I've been set up!!!" All you had to do was contact DNR and tell them that, against your wishes, someone illegally sent you snakes and they wouldn't have a case against you at all. You set yourself up.
Just my own opinions,
Karl
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