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I hardly take what I read at face value, but
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by AzAtrox on December 13, 2007
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If indeed you did not wish to take delivery of the package, why did you? If your primary concern was to get the snakes out of the Post Office, why not just tell the Post Office that you never authorized this shipment, and instruct them to return it to the sender? What were you going to do with the package had this not been a sting? Return it to the sender yourself? I don't know you, but it sounds as if your friend might have been the proud new owner of a few timbers. I guess I'm just having a little difficulty understanding where picking up a package that you didn't want because "you couldn't leave it there" becomes a valid defense for the very act of picking up the package...can you explain this?
The fact that no money changed hands is irrelevant for both the possession and transport charges.
I'm sure you can understand why some here might be a bit skeptical regarding the whole "set up" scenario...If you knew that horridus was prohibited in Indiana, why in the world would you agree to put your proverbial "neck on the chopping block" in order to aid a friend in the acquisition of such? How much responsibility is this friend assuming at this point? Is he contacting the DNR and stating that you were acting on his behalf? I doubt it...in my mind, a true friend would never knowingly put you in that position to begin with...
As you can probably tell, I have serious doubts as to the veracity of the "set up". From the story and your own admissions, you knowingly took possession of a container containing prohibited animals. In light of past conduct, I have difficulty extending leniency or the "benefit of the doubt" in this case.
I doubt that the entire case has been heard here...regardless, I'll follow suit with other posters and recommend that you retain excellent legal counsel in your defense. Good luck.
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by Psammophis on December 14, 2007
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Mate, there are three sides to every story: yours, theirs and the truth. As stated, there are too many holes in your story.
Get a good lawyer.
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by SerpenXotics on December 15, 2007
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I have to agree with everyone here and I think chance is on to something. I have a close friend who works for our own SCDNR, he has been a friend for years and typically DNR does not try to set anyone up unless they have reason to. This may not be my place to say but it sounds to me like you gave DNR a reason to investigate further.it also sounds to me as if you fell into the "set up". and with the timber vs canebrake issue it's still horridus I bet good money coastal aka canebrake rattlesnake and timbers are all horridus in the eye of the law. I am not sure but don't they consider cali kings illegal in GA because they are still in the same genus as eastern species.
anyway peace
Joe Lesh
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by ALA_snake33 on December 16, 2007
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I know that a lot of you will damn me for saying this, but Rob Carmicheal has not had to deal with some of the “Good Old Boys” in this country that will do anything to make a name for their selves. Yes, I am talking about some of our “Finest Law Enforcement Officers”. Guys that you think you can trust, but will stick a knife in your back anytime they can, especially if it will benefit them in some way. If you are so ignorant as to not see this, it means they have already done the job on you. Watch these CSI stories like Criminal Case Files, Cold Case Files and other Law Related Shows that show real Cases. It is totally apparent to anyone with sense to see it that the Judicial System in the Country needs a full overhaul and until we put a damn stop to it, it will keep going.
To make a long story short, open you eyes, they are doing what they damn well please.
Yes, I will ketch “Heat” for this, but I really don’t give a “Flying Hoot”.
I know I don’t post much anymore because its not worth it to do so, but I do not understand the trust for DNR that is so apparent on here, it makes no sense to me.
Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by Buzztail1 on December 16, 2007
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Wally,
Whether or not Rob, or I, or anyone else, has had to deal with Law Enforcement Officers that you can't "trust" has nothing to do with this thread.
The fact of the matter is that if they come barging into your home without a warrant and YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ILLEGAL you can sue them back to the Stone Age. BUT, if you are breaking the law, then no-one wants to side with you because then you are sympathizing with someone who was breaking the law.
Of course there is corruption. There is NO SUCH THING as perfection. I would recommend an extended stay in most any other country (other than Canada or England) to build a personal appreciation for how good it really is here.
As for putting a stop to LEOs doing what they darn well please and a full overhaul of the US judicial system, that will have to be worked on by people who haven't gotten a record for being outside of the legal system. NCARK is doing a pretty good job at keeping the laws from being passed. But the people who come here and want support because they got caught breaking a law that they didn't agree with are just in the wrong place.
Sorry if you feel that isn't fair.
Some of us are trying to change the laws without breaking them first.
My "eyes are open". Is this "heat"? I would like to think not. I just wanted to explain why everyone is not up in arms about the actions of LEOs arresting people who are breaking the law.
R/
Karl
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by tj on December 16, 2007
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Well said, Karl. Wally, I don't think you need to worry about anyone giving you any heat about your comments. I don't think anyone is really going to contend with your logic.
I think Dustin should forget about getting a good lawyer and represent himself. He can use the CSI or Cold Case Files defense.
I was framed your honor, haven't you ever seen one of those real life cases like on CSI? LOL!
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by AquaHerp on December 17, 2007
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Wally,
I can't speak for every state here, yet I can for Indiana. I have dealt extensively with the IDNR for many years on a variety of topics including drafting and retooling wildlife laws and statutes (herp law included). I have had nothing but positive experiences with the officers and representatives of the law enforcement and permit departments over my 20-some years of interaction with them.
Is it easy and fast to get a permit there? No, it isn't and I will admit a bit frustrating at times, but it can be done. Is every officer super-duper friendly and enthusiastic about herps? No. Is every herper on the up and up and keeping these animals in a responsible manner and being mature and safeguarding themselves and the general public with their practices? No. It's not a perfect system...not a perfect world, but we need to work within the confines of what we have.
DH
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by ALA_snake33 on December 19, 2007
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TJ, Karl and Doug: In the following lines, I am about to quote a Game Warden from here in Limestone County, AL. These are the exact words that the man said to me.
It goes as follows: Wally, you can talk to the Sheriffs in the County you live in, maybe they can give you the Permit to Keep Exotics that your looking for.
Now: Let me clarify something here. In the State of AL you can not Keep, Transport, or Offer to Sale any Venomous Reptiles that are not native to the State (what so ever). Yet this officer told me that I could get a Keepers Permit from a County Official that would never stand in Court.
This being said, don’t you think this could be called “Entrapment”. Imagine this situation: John Doe Herp Keeper goes to his local Sherif and ask him for a Permit. Well, the Officer says “Yeah Why Not” well John Doe goes home Buys himself a Puffy, Gabby, and a few other chosen Species that he really loves. Then 6 Months to a Year later Mr. DNR comes knocking at the door. Well I don’t have to tell the rest of the story, now do I.
Yeah it happens more damn often then you think, it happened in this area not 8 Months ago.
I Rest My Case.
Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by AzAtrox on December 19, 2007
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entrapment n. in criminal law, the act of law enforcement officers or government agents to induce or encourage a person to commit a crime when the potential criminal expresses a desire not to go ahead.
Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill. All Right reserved.
"This being said, don’t you think this could be called “Entrapment”. Imagine this situation: John Doe Herp Keeper goes to his local Sherif and ask him for a Permit. Well, the Officer says “Yeah Why Not” well John Doe goes home Buys himself a Puffy, Gabby, and a few other chosen Species that he really loves. Then 6 Months to a Year later Mr. DNR comes knocking at the door. Well I don’t have to tell the rest of the story, now do I."
Your scenario would not fit the legal definition of entrapment. In your scenario, at no time does law enforcement approach the individual regarding the purchase of illegal animals. Instead, the imaginary law breaker approaches LE with a request. Thus far, LE has not attempted to compel or persuade the person to engage in any illegality whatsoever.
So does this guy walk out with a permit in hand, or simply an assurance from the Sherriff that such a permit is possible? If indeed the Sherriff has statutory authority to issue such permits and gives one to our imaginary friend, (and only THEN does the person purchase the animals), no criminal violation has occurred.
If on the other hand, the Sherriff gives him the impression that such a permit is possible and THEN he goes out and buys a bunch of illegal animals, a criminal violation has occurred. This is because our imaginary friend has purchased illegal animals with knowledge that a) he had no permit at the time of purchase and b) he knew that possession and purchsing of said animals was illegal without such a permit. Whatever the Sherriff informs him at that point is irrelevant...Because LE did not compel this guy to commit an illegal act, there is no entrapment...This guy committed an illegal act based upon inaccurate information provided to him by the Sherriff...However, it is HIS responsibility to know his state's wildlife laws, and ignorance of such is not a valid defense, regardless of what someone tells him...
So...entrapment doesn't work here...sorry
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RE: Help! I've been set up!!!
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by tj on December 19, 2007
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No, I wouldn't call that entrapment, nor would I call Dustin's case. More than likely, if the Sheriff signed any documented permit, it would stand up in court.
Even if it was wrong.
Dustin's case is not even close to that. He already had TWO priors and HAD POSTED TIMBER RATTLESNAKES FOR SALE ON A PUBLIC FORUM. It's pretty much case closed and ignorance is not going to work, especially when they know it isn't the case. Bottom line, he needs to take his licks and people need to realize that these forums are being monitored.
It's doubtful he'll do any time, which is a good thing, but the fines will be hefty.
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