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The Legalities and Philosophies of Venomous Herpet
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by vettesherps on May 9, 2002
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Excellent article. I wholeheartedly concur. Now the only problem I see is getting those responsible herpers to get on board and become active. In many cases becoming involved makes them a target for the very laws they are trying to change. I have also found that it is very hard to get very many people to devote much interest or time to any issue. Wisconsin recently passed a law that could have a very negative impact on herp keepers in general and certainly greater impact on hot keepers. I tried to get a large number of herpers in our community to write their legislator and later the governor with little success. It turns out that less than 50 people responded stating that they were oppossed to the law. More than 200 had assured me they would write or call. Now we are at the mercy of the DNR and their decision making ability in determining what is harmful to humans or the environment. I have also noticed that in several instances those who did come forward to speak out, were radicals who opposed any form of government intervention or regulation. They made derogatory comments toward those very people who had the power to help. (kind of like punching your doctor before he treats you) I have now found that with the law passed it has been nothing but a run around trying to get involved with the rules making committee and can't seem to find anyone who can help me get them the information they need before they create more of a problem than already exists. Thanks for listening.
vettesherps
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RE: The Legalities and Philosophies of Venomous He
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by snkldy9 on May 10, 2002
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glad to see you here vette. we here also liked the article and the views it made. but just wait until july. and will see how the show goes. later friends
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RE: The Legalities and Philosophies of Venomous He
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by bear44857 on June 14, 2002
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I can agree that responsible keepers should be allowed to keep the venomous ones as per their discretion. But this issue also has another side to it. I myself am not a keeper of any snakes. Although I do not have a fear of snakes, I can understand the ones who do. My opinion although just one is that there should be some kind of regulations on keeping these snakes. What would we do if there was a keeper who just got into it for the thrill of keeping something dangerous ( hypothetical but can happen). Then that same keeper decided it wasnt such a big deal after all and set it loose in a rural community such as mine. The potential for a bite is enormous. I think it should not be allowed within city limits and should be limited to like country areas. Sorry dont mean to offend you all who do this. But something that I have seen in the past is in my small hometown. believe it or not I live in Ohio and it is not natural habitat for a tarantula.Now I have a very irrational fear of spiders so imagine how I felt when at ten years old I come across a very large tarantula loose in my back yard.Someone who owned the darn thing got tired of it and set it loose. Now imagine that the darn thing wasnt de venomed.Imagine it biting someone.Especially a child. That could be a even more deadly snake. Now I realize there are deadly snakes all over the world. Even here in Ohio. Some more deadly than others. Now think of the repercussions of a irresponsible person allowed to keep one. Imagine someone in your hometown owning a spitting cobra or a mamba anything that is not naturally in your enviroment. Now imagine that person losing interest in owning it.How would you feel if they let it loose for your unsuspecting child to run into it accidently and not get the appropriate anti-venom because that snake is not a locally known snake. Not trying to say I am against owning them but am trying to say I believe that to own one there should be some very very strict rules.One loose cannon like you said earlier could ruin it all for the rest of you true serious handlers and keepers. I myself like snakes but would be seriously against keeping them unless you know exactly the dangers and the responsibility to the rest of us you do have in keeping them.
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The Legalities and Philosophies of Venomous Herpet
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by serpentinespirit on July 7, 2002
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Greetings all who are still reading this great article. As a new member of SHHS and a neophite hot herp holder, reading all the articles and seeing all the the classified ads for exotic deadly snakes being zipped through the mail makes me truly grasp the scope of responsibility involved in owning a hot. I myself live in the city limits of Greenville, SC and there are families with kids all around me. I live in a cluttered one bedroom duplex with 6 snakes, 3 not hot, 3 domestic pitvipers (Agkistrodon, Sistrurus, and Crotalus). Mistakes are out of the question. Anyone living in or around SC/WesternNC who has a lot of hot herp experience who needs a road riding friend, gimme a holler, it's summer and there's roadkill everywhere. Someone needs to get to them early before the idiots kill em.
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RE: The Legalities and Philosophies of Venomous He
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by biff on September 1, 2002
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In response to the first reply...a little late, but better late than never...
there are currently many different statutes (criminal) which would be applicable should someone turn a venomous snake loose on society...not to mention huge civil liabilities.
Steve
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The Legalities and Philosophies of Venomous Herpet
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by rumruner on September 5, 2002
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I am new to this site, but I am very interested in what y'all have to say. I myself own no hot herps, only eastern indigos, but I do find many of them beautiful and fascinating.
My comment is really more of a question. What do many of you feel is a better alternative to having no regulation? I ask this because I am an attorny in Texas and I have seen a great increase in the amount of hot herps sold through my state. I personally think that a permit system which requires hours of training and annual renewal would be ideal. Not so much to protect people (no offense, but frankly if you are handling venomous snakes and get envenomated it is your own fault) but to protect the animals. Afterall you need training and permits to own lions, tigers, and pumas. Not to protect the keeper so much as the animal.
I am not trying to imply that anyone here mistreats their snakes, but cases have come across my desk where people have kept three or four large snakes (I think they were monocled cobras) in one 3'X4'X18" tank. In that case all three animals were dead when the authorities arrived, however it was the animals that suffered from the keepers inexperience not the keeper.
Additionally, a permit system with a waiting period would disuade the fly-by-night, impulse buyer from seeing Steve Irwin or Mark O'Shea handling a snake and thinking they could do so as well.
I am very interested in any input that y'all might have because I am writing an article on the subject of hot herps and state law.
Thanks,
Rumrunner
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by copperhead0426 on September 17, 2002
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I help build houses for a living.I also keep venomous snakes. My reply is about the tarantula in Ohio sent in by bear44857. We received a shipment of stone for landscaping and much to our surprise we found a scorpion (non-native to North Carolina) in the shipment. There are many ways that the tarantula could have shown up in Ohio.
Danny
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The Legalities and Philosophies of Venomous Herpet
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by NegativGain on October 30, 2002
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This article caught my attention for the fact that Florida's legal system was mentioned. The laws of Florida regarding venomous snakes are better than some states, as we are allowed to own them provided we have a permit, but I find them rather ridiculous. Not necessarily the laws regarding snakes, but more the venomous creatures we DON'T need a permit for. Examples : Vietnamese centipedes, fat-tailed scorpions, black widow and funnel web spiders, and too many others to name. All pose just as much of a threat to the people and ecosystem of Florida as any venomous snake, but there are no regulations regarding them. How does it make sense that you need a permit to own a rear fanged, non-lethal snake, but no permit is required to own an arachnid that could potentially be fatal? A 15 year old child can purchase a deadly scorpion with no prior knowledge of the animal and with no antivenom for its sting, but to own any venomous snake (regardless of venom toxicity) requires 1000 hours of documented handling experience. Shouldn't the laws be directed at all venomous or potentially dangerous animals instead of just snakes?
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RE: The Legalities and Philosophies of Venomous He
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by sawscale on December 11, 2002
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also in reply to bear44857, I would like to point out that there are no venomous tarantulas. Therefore no need to "de-venom" them.
You may develop a cellulitis-like infection, but I rather doubt it.
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The Legalities and Philosophies of Venomous Herpet
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by PostalAutomat on June 5, 2003
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This is a good article and addresses concerns from both sides of the coin. I am not a herper but have an interest and have been reading the pages here to educate myself. I agree with the idea of permits and believe that it provides a level of safety for the general public provided that the standards for acquiring a permit are relevant. As was pointed out in a previous reply, Florida's system is not perfectly balanced and I doubt that any system can or will ever be perfectly balanced, but having something provides a baseline to build on. In my opinion there is room for continuous improvement in anything done. The primary focus should be responsible husbandry in proper conditions by people who are acknowledged and credited with the necessary knowledge, skills, and resources to keep these animals. Having 1000 hours of documented experience demonstrates a level of knowledge and skills, however it does not address resources. Resources encompasses more than just a cage/habitat, it also includes financial responsibility, room integrity, and capacity to provide for the animals medical treatment just to name a few. As I have read in more than one account so far, this is a hobby/avocation that is not to be taken lightly or as a thrill seeking opportunity. There are just to many consequences related to mistakes and mistakes will happen, but by holding the bar at a reasonable level relative to the risks involved, mistakes can be minimized. This can help protect the keeping of hots as well as provide for the general public's safety.
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