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The full story
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by birdie_h84 on April 14, 2005
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I would like to ask if anyone cared about these puppies a year after this occured. I was the one who suggested to feed them to Jesse the snake. There were nine puppies originally. Three were killed by the mother before weaning age. Three were placed in homes. The other three were euthanized after spending their entire year of life in a kennel. The three that were placed were al euthanized within a year, also, due to aggression problems.
This was an unplanned pregnancy that we thought was impossible. Dad had saved Kate from the pound because he has a soft spot for English Pointers. We took care of her at the clinic for over a year, and she never went into heat. We assumed she was spayed (most dogs cycle twice a year). An unnecessary exploratory surgery is very traumatic to the animal, so we did not go in to make sure she was not intact. We took her to our home in the country, where she spent her days running free and exploring. She made friends with our neighbors' dogs, one of which was an intact male Beagle named Ralph. She didn't gain much weight in the two months of her pregnancy, and the first we knew of it was when we went into our garage to find her curled up in a blanket with all nine of them around her. We knew that we would not be able to care for nine puppies, so we searched for alternatives.
We had sold rabbits to Matt before when we had some small enough for Jesse to eat. We decided that the best thing for these puppies was to thin the litter. At the time that they were in the school, they were less than a week old. Their eyes and ears were still closed, and several of them already had wounds from their mother. They would not know what was happening and would experience almost no pain. Matt usually fed the snakes in front of his class about once a semester. He usually fed a rabbit at this showing, and though there were complaints, everyone understood that a rabbbit was part of this snake's natural diet. No one ever complained past saying, "But that one's so cute!" He never expected a problem with this.
From my experience caring for and raising these puppies, who were weaned at exactly six weeks, put on antibiotics because of the extensive wounds inflicted by Kate (some had nerve troubles until the day they were put to sleep), sterilized at exactly eight weeks, and raised in kennels for the rest of their lives (except their three leashed walks a day), they would have been a lot better off had Matt been allowed to feed them to Jesse.
If you watch the KAKE news broadcast where Dr. Harkins is interviewed, you night notice that Kate is being held in place in the box with her puppies. She never went near them unless we forced her to. They would have starved if we hadn't kept her in a kennel small enough that she couldn't get away from them. She was not a good mother, and her pups showed it. As soon as surgery was feasible after the pups were weaned, she was spayed and adopted by one of the kennel workers who had cared for her during her stay at the clinic. She is now enjoying the countryside once again, without the risk of another litter.
One of the puppies, who was named Emma after her adoption at ten weeks old, was a good pet for one of our clients. She was well cared for and obviously loved. Out of nowhere, around a year of age, she snapped at her owner very viciously, and for no apparent reason. This woman had been bringing her pets to us for veterinary care for years, and often came in without them just to talk. We believed her when she said that this dog wouldn't care what it did to her, and she was scared of it now. Emma was put down later that week.
I would like to once again ask the question: Who asked about these puppies a year after their "ordeal"? I would also like to ask: Where were all of these outraged people when these pups went up for adoption at eight weeks old? It had been less than two months since the world was outraged at this action, and everyone had already forgotten about them. I would like to request that the next time you step between nature and nature's food, remember to take care of the lives you saved.
Bridget Harkins-Handel
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by tony33 on May 9, 2005
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I dont believe that feeding live puppies to a large snake in a class room is humane. although i dont dissagree with the reasoning behind the act. it is a very logical solution to another major problem we have in the states. i love dogs had one all my life.i dont like to think of them being eatin yet i have been to the pound in a few lage cities where they are put to sleep we all know what it means "put to death" but it sounds nicer the end is the same with out the circle of life being compleated. having them frozen first "hypothermea is said to be painless" would make it easier on the huaman psyce. who knows? was the act it self wrong i dont believe so only doing so front of youth with out a concenting adults permission
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RE: Ethics vs. morals
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by Arcticwolf on November 3, 2005
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What I don't know is, why would most Americans abhor the idea of killing a cow themselves, yet have no regrets dumping a live lobster into boiling water. Can't they feel as much pain as a cow or any other animal, for that matter? Sorry for being off topic but I just wanted to get that off my chest.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by Blah on January 21, 2006
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It scares me to think that there are emotionally-void people in this world who think feeding puppies to a snake is right. There's a difference between being TOO emotional, and not being emotional at all. Having emotions doesn't make you stupid, it makes you human, and if you can't understand why someone might be upset about seeing a puppy being fed to a snake, then something's not right with you.
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RE: Ethics vs. morals
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by Jeepster on May 21, 2006
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Actually, lobsters and most other invertebrates dont feel pain. Vertebrates and cephalopods (such as octopuses squids cuttlefishes and nautiluses) are the only animals that have the ability to think, feel, learn and suffer. All vertebrates and cephalopods have this ability, but none of the other animals or any other organism does. Vertebrates and cephalopods are the only creatures that acutally have a mind or cognizance. That is why animal rights laws only apply to vertebrates (most people don't come in contact with cephalopods very often). For example, if there is a wasp nest at the top of a 100 foot tree and people feel threatened by it but the wasps never stung anyone, people will come and destroy the wasp nest even if it is in a government owned wooded lot, but if there are over populated, stinking, diesease spreading skunks burrowing under your house, you will actually go to jail for killing them. That's why, contrary to my email address (which is very old), I hate all vertebrates and cephalopods and love all other organisms. I joined the site simple so I could post a comment in this forum.
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by Jeepster on May 21, 2006
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MY reply to Redrumrattle's comment.
But all it takes is a person to be raised differently and you end up with a person who wants to feed puppies to snakes.
I never had pets until I was twelve and I got some fish which I loved at first but quickly got tired of them when they didn't do what I wanted them to do. When I was very young I didn't have any feelings for any animals. Then in first grade a teacher taught us about rabies and said that all mammals could get it so I became afraid of mammals from that time until I was fourteen. Even after I lost my fear of them I still preferred reptiles, birds and other animals to mammals and I still think they are disgusting when compared to most other creatures. Now my parents didn't teach me this, they weren't even aware of this until very recently, but they also never me that I was supposed to like dogs and cats and value them more than other animals. So I went around most of my life time valuing chickens and lizards more than dogs and cats. I have noticed that our culture seems to elevate certain animals above others, but I've never been able to "get into the groove". I just cant understand it. It's not a part of me. And as most people know now, I love all invertebrates (except for cephalopods) and dislike all vertebrates simply because I can understand them better, and also because I hate the way people protect vertebrates so much. So in short, I have a very scientific mind, which makes it very hard for me to understand culture or emotions but easy to understand the robotic ways of the invertebrates.
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RE: Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by Jeepster on May 21, 2006
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"if you cant understand why someone would oppose to puppies being fed to snakes then something's not right with you".
Hey! Look at me! I prefer invertebrates over vertebrates, insects over mammals, cockroaches over cats, the creepy-crawly over the cuddly, the slimy over the fuzzy. I have to wash my hands if I even think I touched something that a mammals mouth just touched! I could never have pets like dogs or cats in my house because the house and everything in it would just feel downright nasty.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by nuts_about_taipans on March 12, 2007
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That guy is the biggest retard in the world. Not only because he as gonna feed puppies to a snake, but because he was gonna feed them live! Why would you put the snake at risk like that? If a rat can kill a taipan that isn't hungry, why couldn't a proprtionately larger mammal like a puppy kill a large python? And even then, the dog's eyes were probably gonna fall out it's head because of the python's strenght when it squeezes. My hatchling diamond pythons routinely cause the mice they feed on to have all sorts of thins come out, be it blood, eyes, brains, etc. He'd probably be court martialled if that happened to the puppies in a school.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by whattagal on May 21, 2007
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I actually don't view this as any more cruel than feeding rats & mice alive to reptiles. It shows what hypocrites people are.
Why is it more wrong because dogs are a 'socially acceptable' pet?
Do puppies have more nerve endings than rats and are thus able to feel pain more? Do they have bigger brains and thus feel more fear and terror?
Not so.
Makes one think doesn't it.
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Teacher Wants to feed Puppies to Snake
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by whattagal on May 21, 2007
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On further thought after reading the rest of the feedback:
We, as humans, are put in the position where we get to play 'God' over other lifeforms. What type of animal we choose as our preferred pet is the same freedom we get to choose friends and human companions. What is one's perfection is not necessarily anothers.
Sad to see that not one of the people here actually stood up for the humble rat...and yes in response to one person's comment- I do experience and love and friendship with my pet rats. I have had pet rats who will sit and do the rat equivalent of 'purring' while I scratched behind her ear, and then she would lick my fingers as affection, not just because I had food on them or something. This was pure unmistakable interaction as a result of closeness and friendship. Nothing that anyone could say would ever prove otherwise.
I have also met dogs who wouldn't give you time of day and are as soul-less as a stone. Yet I have 4 dogs and adore them, and I know they adore me. Their definition of love may vary from ours, but I know I have a friendship and a bond with them.
As for the kill or not to kill debate: It is inevitable in life that death happens, either by accident or we cause it. Animals die for our food and other needs, it is a fact. From country to country it varies, what is considered holy n one country is condemmed in another. There are holy cows in one religion, yet we freely kill and eat them in our countries (European), yet our own 'holy' animals such as dogs, are killed and eaten in other countries.
At times we humans will kill each other...on behalf of people we have never met in person (presidents etc). We create wars over things that animals could never comprehend and if they could, would surely condemn.
So it comes down to two things. Either the entire world becomes vegan (I can hear everyone going "Yeah right!" or we become duty-bound to at least ensure that we minimise suffering where we can, and at very least euthanise animals humanely before feeding them to another.
I have personally have had to assist in euthanasing creatures that I have no particular affinity for, nor fondness of in any way. I will go so far as to say I had an extreme dislike of them, but I could put this aside and respect the animal/reptile's life and their right to be humanely destroyed. That is, quickly and efficiciently. I certainly got no pleasure from it, but was relieved that their suffering (due to injury) or situation would end swiftly.
Meat eaters trust that the abbattoirs do this for them with cattle etc; we have people whose job it is to ensure that it is done humanely. We have more than a few means of 'voting' for or against practices: for example we vote with our dollars for free range eggs or factory produced ones.
In the case of this teacher: Anyone who gets pleasure from tormenting animals (or children, as in the case of this guy) should be held responsible for what is within their character to cause them to think that this is okay behaviour.
There is no doubt that the man should be barred from teaching. For not only does he disregard animal welfare, but also that of the children when he disregarded their psychological welfare.
Each should be accountable for their own.
We cannot save the world, but we can each do our own individual bit.
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