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desprate for an answer!!!
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by Mr_Me on October 7, 2004
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I need to know what exactly happens to a person if bitten by a carpet viper and what happens to a person bitten by a russells viper. what happens to the blood, nerves, respitory. Basically anything about the venom in us?
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RE: desprate for an answer!!!
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by HotHerper1 on October 8, 2004
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Ok, here's the best answer I can get for you. Russel's Viper bite... well basically without immediate medical attention you're dead in 36hours. The venom is a mixure of around 10 enzymes and varies based on where the location of the viper is. It is an extremely powerful Hemotoxin which basically makes you bleed out internally. It ruptures blood vessels, prevents blood clotting destroys muscle tissue, along with a host of other "symtoms" the LD-50 on the Russels Viper ranges from 0.133 to 2.11 depending on the sub-species with such a huge possible range in vemon toxicity it is always imperative that you know where the snake's locality is. to put those numbers in comparisson a Black Mamba's LD-50 is around 0.25 so you can see that russels are very dangerous and the cause of many deaths due to human encroachment in Sri Lanka. What makes it so deadly is how powerful the venom is, as it doesn't inject large amounts in comarisson a Gaboon Viper has a low LD-50 in the 4-5 range but it injects so much venom it easily can kill humans.
Now the Carpet Viper also known as the Israeli Saw-Scalled Viper has an LD around 4.475 That being said its related to the Saw Scalled Viper one of the most deadly snakes in Sri Lanka. I was unable to find much information on the Carpet Viper being so closely related to the Saw-Scalled Viper a snake which causes many deaths every year it seems to take a back seat to its cousin. the only difference physically between the two are the rows of scales on its head. 3 for the carpet, where-as the saw scalled only has 1. its effects would generally be the same as most vipers, Muscle tissue damage, the prevention of blood clot's, rupture of blood cells, some venoms cause heart failure. But without more information on this specific species I cant accurately answer your questions regaurding its venom. I would make an educaded guess to say that its venom is close to that of the saw scalled viper.
I hope this helps, and as always happy herping.
Michael
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RE: desprate for an answer!!!
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by tj on October 8, 2004
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Saw-scaled and carpet vipers are the same snake,it's just the english given name for species of the echis genus. Athough some distinguish carinatus as saw-scaled and coloratus as carpet. Both pretty much have the same term no matter where they are found
A snake in Africa could be termed saw-scaled or carpet viper, the same with Egypt, Pakistan, etc.
The venom contains a strong anticoagulant, so the victim basically bleeds uncontrollably, inside and out.
The death is slow and painful. No antivenom, which is limited to each species, occelatus , carinatus, coloratus, etc. (there is no poly), would most likely result in a bad way.
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RE: desprate for an answer!!!
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by HotHerper1 on October 8, 2004
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Thank you for clearing that up. I couldn't find a deffenite answer to the species/subspecies, as well as the common name clarification. hence I made the best educated guess I could. specially since they aren't in my general zone of knowledge... so I found what I could for him.
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RE: desprate for an answer!!!
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by LarryDFishel on October 8, 2004
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Where did you get that LD50 for the carpet viper? I'm sure that's off by a factor of 10 or more (my quick search turned up numbers from 0.25 to 0.575 depending on injection site).
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RE: desprate for an answer!!!
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by Phobos on October 8, 2004
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Hey Guys:
Check Dr. Fry's LD50 chart: http://www.venomdoc.com/LD50/LD50men.html
His "subQ" value is 0.151 mg/kg for E. clarinatus, even lower yet.
I generally shy away from equating LD50 data to effects on humans since the data is experimental and mice are used. Besides, humans are not natural prey items and bite circumstances & conditions vary. It should be used as a guideline to discuss relative toxcity between species only.
Best,
Al
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RE: desprate for an answer!!!
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by HotHerper1 on October 9, 2004
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this is where I got my LD-50 data
http://www.kingsnake.com/toxinology/LD50/ld50iv.html
the Carpet viper and the saw scaled are listed seperatly which only served to further confuse me as to species/subspecies of the animal. these snakes aren't my focus, and I had to trust the data I found online.
if there are more recent more accurate LD-50 sites out there please send them to me. thanks
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