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A / V
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by NUMBER18 on October 31, 2004
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Hey. It's been quite a while since I visited this site... Still keeping up here in Canada! I have an A / V query. Does anyone know about the proficiency of Bioclone serum for Crotaline snakebite from Mexico?
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RE: A / V
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by stopgetinpopped on October 31, 2004
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Bioclon for North American Pit Vipers ( as well as many Central and South) Is far superior to Crofab. Especially for you in Canada, if you have to import the sera anyway, you might as well get the good stuff from Mexico. Besides Bioclon, runs about 250.00 per vial compared to the 1,000.00 for Crofab. You generally will use a lot less of the Bioclon too.
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RE: A / V
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by Phobos on November 1, 2004
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Hey Terry:
I agree that the Bioclon is very good A/V and #1 one for our Canadian friends. Unfortunately getting a US Doctor to use it for a local Rattlesnake bite will be a very uphill battle because it's not FDA approved. Go figure when those idiots let Fen-Fen & Vioxx loose on the market without extensive testing....
Do you have the data on it's ability to neutralize the venom for the US varities of Crotalids? It should be found in the circular with the A/V.
Also, I've seen a wide market price for CroFab from $1000/vial all the way up to $2950.00/ vial. Wow!! what a spread!
I thought the Bioclon was $25.00/ vial? 2750.00 peso's/ vial seems mighty high for your average mexican farmer.
Best,
Al
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RE: A / V
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by stopgetinpopped on November 2, 2004
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If purchased in mexico, Bioclon is much cheaper than 250.00 per vial. There is a "distributer" in Tenn. that offers Bioclon for 250.00 That is the price I quoted as that is where I bought ours. Saves some hassle. If you look at Crofab, it is made from only a couple of our native venomous....also it is a poor choice of venoms. Bioclon is made from a much better selection of venoms so is more effective for a wider group of snakes.
Snakes don't understand political borders, So it doesn't matter if it is a Mexican C atrox or a U.S. C atrox...see what I am getting at. Basically, Bioclon chose to use a better combo of snakes than Cro fab did. Also, it doesnt filter from your system as fast as Cro fab..therefore needing far less serum.
As you noted 250.00 per vial would be kind of hard for a 'farmer' in mexico to afford...would it also suffice to say that 1000.00 per vial for a 'farmer' in the U.S. to afford?
As far as the package insert for Bioclon..it's rather vague.
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RE: A / V
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by stopgetinpopped on November 2, 2004
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Al,
I forgot, Bioclon not being FDA approved doesn't make it less likely that a doctor would use it as it is the same as any other exotic AV, you need a doctor to 'sign off' in order to get your permit.
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RE: A / V
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by Phobos on November 3, 2004
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Terry:
Thanks for your input. I agree and understand "snakes without borders" concept but the main thrust of the question was cross reactivity. Since significant variations in venom composition from region to region are well documented the scientist in me wanted to see some real data.
Since I'm not a pharmacologist I won't pass judgment on the mix of venoms used. However, I agree with you that from our perspective the mix may not be optimal considering the low reactivity to Crotalus molossus for instance.
The "whole globulin" composition of many AV's does have advantages and dis-advantages. Yes, it sticks around in your system longer but is a lot rougher on your kidneys to get it all out. The Fab fragment AV concept is easier on your Kidneys but leave your system faster as you noted. Fab type AV's are also said to be much better on the local effects of the venom because of the molecules smaller size can get into the tissues better. I have nothing to back this up, just hearsay.
It's too bad these life saving serums are subject to much profiteering. Good thing Fogera does not make all of the AV's.
Best,
Al
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