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Gaboon viper
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by TexasCobra on October 31, 2004
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Can i house many adult gaboon vipers together boath males and females. they are all W/C and i want to put them in a large enclosure together. probably 3 or 4
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RE: Gaboon viper
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Anonymous post on November 1, 2004
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There are a couple of things u should consider when establishing a venomous community enclosure. The task has been achieved successfully numerous times by zoological institutions and private keepers alike.
Bitis gabonica ssp tend to do well w/ other Bitis providing they aren't overcrowded and their husbandry needs are adequately met. If the enclosure is large enough, prekilled items maybe offered on tongs. You will need to remain with them until the food is eaten entirely. If you can install dividers in your enclosure.....even better. Great care should be taken at feeding time. Bitis have fast strikes, large toxic venom yield's, and large fangs. Any movement from another cagemate could provoke a strike/bite from another. If a Bitis should sink it's fangs into another captive (especially if it hangs on) it could be fatal.
Another potential could concern could be cross contaminating other specimens w/ pathogens. Suppose 2 specimens imported last Feb. have been treated for internal parasites, while 2 others imported in March haven't. If you want to house all the specimens together, prompt identification and treatment of such parasites must be done simultaneously.
Finally, if you are housing adult specimens, I recommending housing them in groups w/ one male. 1.2, or 1.3. The reason being, male gabonica tend to be territorial, and such combative nature will eventually be noted in the enclosure. The smaller male will be continuously dominated by the larger male, and should be removed. The additional male should only be introduced, while supervised, to promote competitive breeding competition and reproductive interest during breeding season........which starts around Sept. for Bitis.
Just a few things to think about. I have spoken.
-The Phantom
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RE: Gaboon viper
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by TexasCobra on November 1, 2004
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My enclosure is 13.5 feet long. 4.5 foot wide and 3.5 foot tall. It Has many naturel plants and hidingplaces. It has a River that goes through it. I want to put 3 or 4 very large gaboons in there. I want 2.2 in there but dident know how it would work out but ive herd that comunity tanks are ok with gaboons even with several males.
thanx
James H.
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RE: Gaboon viper
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by Phobos on November 1, 2004
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Hi James:
The "Phantom's" post is excellent (Nice Job Phantom!) He did leave out one major concern that you'll agree is important, the keepers safety. Having groups of these big hard hitting vipers in one enclosure leave absolutely no room for error and make cleaning and feeding not only a danger to the snakes as he said but to the keeper also. The larger Bitis cannot be underestimated in their ability to defy physics and do what seems to be impossible. I have never seen more that two per cage at any zoo just for these reasons.
Sounds like just a fantastic habitat you have for them but the more snakes & "stuff" in the cage the more dangerious it is for you and the snakes.
Good luck,
Al
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RE: Gaboon viper
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by Chance on November 1, 2004
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Phobos made a great point. From the description of your enclosure, it sounds very nice outwardly, but I imagine with that you aren't planning on using a newspaper substrate. I'm sure you are well aware of a gaboons amazing camouflage ability. It would probably be pretty easy, considering an enclosure of that size, to drop in even a few big gabs and have each one vanish if you were utilize a naturalistic dead leaf and soil substrate. Then what do you do at feeding times? You certainly don't want to just toss in a bunch of large rats for the snakes to kill and eat. Besides the whole argument against feeding live prey, you have to worry about what was already mentioned: cagemates nailing each other, possibly fatally so. So your options would be to either use a different layout for the enclosure; be sure that the substrate, if it's natural, will still make the snakes stand out and be very visible; or to do a completely meticulous search of the enclosure before ever opening it and accounting for each and every snake in there and its exact position. Your best bet would be to do what most zoos I've visited have done. Use a naturalistic substrate, some type of ground up bark or something, that will look nice but still make the snakes stand out and be seen. Zoos do this probably so that people can see the snakes in the first place, but also for the keepers' safety. It would be in your best interest to do the same. Like Phobos said, you might be surprised at the seemingly impossible feats large Bitis are able to perform on a whim (nanosecond), so you DON'T want to be caught unawares. Whatever you do, good luck. Get some pictures of the finished product and post them somewhere. I'd like to see it.
-Chance
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RE: Gaboon viper
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Anonymous post on November 1, 2004
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Al,
I did forget to mention the safety aspect, thanks. This is obvious, but nevertheless should be stressed every time. Keeping venomous reptiles in community type enclosures (usually for display purposes) is about as dangerous as it can get. If you work alone, there will be times you must work directly w/ the animals taking them out of the enclosure. At such times of removal, the door is open. Mind your P's and Q's. Hats off to elapid keepers, who brave the task of maintaining these set ups.
Oh and another thing, "He" did not leave anything out, but perhaps "SHE" did. LOL
Chance,
I am unaware of any keeper/safety perspectives utilized by the AZA re: (venomous reptile substrate/keeper safety). Substrates are selected firstly to simulate a natural environment, while being easy to clean. The obvious is clear. Naturally you wouldn't want to display D. polylepis or O. s. canni using a thick pile of leaves for substrate.
-The Phantom
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RE: Gaboon viper
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by Chance on November 1, 2004
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Phantom,
I am not aware of any specific guidelines the AZA has in place for maintaining venomous species. My point was solely based upon observation at various zoos in my general area that display gaboons or any other cryptic venomous. It seems like what they try to do is mimic the natural conditions to a point, such as have some dead, dry leaves in the gab cage, but not so excessively that the animal is able to completely conceal itself. Private keepers, on the other hand (I myself was guilty of this once or twice), when trying to simulate a naturalistic enclosure, may go a bit overboard and allow the animal ample opportunity to put itself into a position that would put the unsuspecting keeper at risk. My memory of these zoo gab enclosures may be a bit skewed as they are from the not-so-recent past, but even if they don't do it, it seems to me that it would be a logical choice when designing venomous snake vivaria.
-Chance
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RE: Gaboon viper
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Anonymous post on November 1, 2004
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I know what you mean. We all want vines, waterfalls, cliff outcrops hanging over the deep pond in well planted, lush habitats. They are very attractive, but the exhibit requires as much work as the snakes. You want to take care that display is simple while providing the animals w/ a faint feeling of home.
-The Phantom
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RE: Gaboon viper
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by Phobos on November 1, 2004
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Hi everyone:
First my apologies to the Phamtom. Seemed to me it was a Masculine handle. again, sorry :-) Glad to meet you :-)
As an AZA member; I know of no guidlines available. It seems to be up to the keepers and folks from exhibits. I an sure two of the cornerstones from the keepers are safety first and ease of maintenence second. Then it's balanced by the input from exhibits.
I am constantly at odds with myself trying to balance my exhibits along these lines myself. They mess it up with poo or knock stuff around and I fix it swearing I'm gonna take it all out. However, when I see how nice it looks and the health of the snakes I beem with pride. Balance is the answer with safety first always..
Gee all this agreement..must not be in the experts forum anymore...lol
Safe keeping to all
Al
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