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Urutu Snake Bite
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by urutur on February 4, 2005
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Is there anyone in the Cincinnati, Ohio who would be a good medical/expert witness on this subject that could help in our daughters death?
As stated in my posting on 2/2/05 she had no chance based on how she was treated.
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RE: Urutu Snake Bite
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by cottonmouth on February 5, 2005
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Are you saying that your daughter is the young lady that died last year from the urutu??? I think Jim Harrison has a brother that might know something on that subject.
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RE: Urutu Snake Bite
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by cottonmouth on February 5, 2005
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I just went back and read your post 2-2 05. I am very sorry to hear about your loss and can't believe in this day and age the folks as intelligent as medical doctors didn't realize that they were over their head. Maybe Jim Harrison has some input....
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RE: Urutu Snake Bite
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by MattHarris on February 5, 2005
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I can't believe in this day and age, people are keeping snakes without the proper antivenom. If the people keeping venomous snakes would develop a relationship with their personal physicians(WHICH THEY MUST DO, to acquire a BB-IND number for antivenom) then the physician would have a) Been aware that the person was keepign venomous snakes, b) been somewhat aware of what to do in case the person is bitten (One item submitted with a BB-IND application is any literature documenting the use of the specific antivenom and for what species it was used) as they SHOULD have reviewed this information. and c) would have had a list of emergency personnel and other persons knowledgable about snakebite (people such as Dr. Sean Bush, Jim Harrison,etc.) If the lady had this information, readily available, I think that other avenues would have been followed. I was actually told that the snakebite specialist for the Cincy Zoo is actually at a different hospital than the one where the lady was treated. This should not have occurred.
I too am sad about the loss of a fellow herper, but unfortunately, the responsibility has to start with the person keeping the animals. I believe the closest antivenom that would have worked was Costa Rican polyvalent(made with Bothrops asper venom) which was on hand at Toledo Zoo and subsequently used for the bushmaster bite(the first one) that occurred last fall.
Was Cincy Zoo contacted for antivenom? They keep Bothrops asper, Bothrops moojeni, Bothrops erythromelas, etc. One would think they would have had something!!!!
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RE: Urutu Snake Bite
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by urutur on February 6, 2005
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Yes, our daughter was bitten and died from the urutu bite in Cincinnati, Ohio last Labor Day 2004.
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RE: Urutu Snake Bite
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by urutur on February 6, 2005
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Our daughter called her friend in Florida, who is in the business and then called the hospital that she was on her way to Mt. Airy Hospital in Cincinnati, Ohio.
She gave her friends telephone number and asked them to call Mitch, which they did.
He explained what they needed to do, what antivenom to use and about how much. He told them to call Miami-Dade and said he called Miami-Dade and they had the antivenom. He also talked to a nurse and told her the same thing. The emergency Dr. just ignored what he had told them. This hospital did not call the Zoo and ignored what he had said. I have copies of the hospital reports and nothing was said about calling a PC. They started treating her with Cro-Fab and then transfered her to the University Hospital where she stayed till she died on 9/11/04. Between both hospitals they only gave her a total of 8 vials of Cro-Fab. The papers said she woke up with a bad headache early the 11th and they gave her a shot of Morphine.
I was told Morphine should not be given for pain???
She died later that morning.
Both hospitals did not call PC or the Zoo.
In the local newspapers after she died the local Director of the Newport Aquarium said in the case of snake bites Miami-Dade should have been called. Apparantly he was not contacted either. There were plenty of local experts to call anti was told later antivenom was as close as Toledo, Ohio. You can get more information from my earlier postings under Urutur.
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RE: Urutu Snake Bite
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by urutur on February 6, 2005
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Our daughter called her friend in Florida, who is in the business and then called the hospital that she was on her way to Mt. Airy Hospital in Cincinnati, Ohio.
She gave her friends telephone number and asked them to call Mitch, which they did.
He explained what they needed to do, what antivenom to use and about how much. He told them to call Miami-Dade and said he called Miami-Dade and they had the antivenom. He also talked to a nurse and told her the same thing. The emergency Dr. just ignored what he had told them. This hospital did not call the Zoo and ignored what he had said. I have copies of the hospital reports and nothing was said about calling a PC. They started treating her with Cro-Fab and then transfered her to the University Hospital where she stayed till she died on 9/11/04. Between both hospitals they only gave her a total of 8 vials of Cro-Fab. The papers said she woke up with a bad headache early the 11th and they gave her a shot of Morphine.
I was told Morphine should not be given for pain???
She died later that morning.
Both hospitals did not call PC or the Zoo.
In the local newspapers after she died the local Director of the Newport Aquarium said in the case of snake bites Miami-Dade should have been called. Apparantly he was not contacted either. There were plenty of local experts to call anti was told later antivenom was as close as Toledo, Ohio. You can get more information from my earlier postings under Urutur.
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RE: Urutu Snake Bite
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by Chris_Harper on February 6, 2005
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It's okay to give morphine for pain if the blood pressure isn't too low, because morphine drops your blood pressure.
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RE: Urutu Snake Bite
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by MattHarris on February 6, 2005
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Ray,
I can sympathize with you, as I see how you try to understand how a doctor, with little or no expertise in treating a snakebite, would not call for outside assistance. The truth of the matter is, there are sometimes egos at play here, where the doctors, seem to think that they are the trained professionals and know the best manner of treatment. We know that is not the case.
A friend of mine, was bitten by a spitting cobra while working at an AZA zoo some years ago. While the zoo had established procedures for treatment at a renowned medical facility, they did not realize, that the snakebite specialist they had a relationship with, no longer practiced at the facility. The new ER physician waited nearly 5 HOURS, after the bite, before antivenom was administered, contrary to the pleas of the zoo director to begin treatment.
Our attempts to start a regional antivenom bank, with a network of specialists, hopefully will prevent this in the future.
Also, even though "Mitch" in Florida was likely an expert in venomous snakes, physicians, are not likely to take their advice, simply because, they are not medical professionals. I do find it hard to believe, that the zoo did not offer antivenom or get you in contact with Kentucky Reptile Zoo, which likely did have the proper antivenom(I assume so since they stock quite a bit). Is it possible that the zoo consulted with the physician and was given information to the effect, that they had the bite stabilized? I think , had your daughter gone to University Hospital in the first place, the bite could have been treated more aggressively and possibly more appropriately. I can only say, that there should have been a protocol set up that indicated, in any event of a bite, that she should have been taken directly to University Hospital (simply calling the zoo, or going there and talking to their staff, would have indicated, that University hospital was the facility of choice).
If you have any questions about the symptoms, and clinical effects of Bothrops envenomation, please feel free to email me privately. I have many articles from journals, which I researched, when obtaining an FDA BB-IND number to obtain Costa RIcan antivenom, that I can send you in PDF format. This may be of use to you in determining whether the treatment provided was consistent with that of other medical facilities.
Sincerely
Matt Harris
MHarris@matabuey.com
www.matabuey.com
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