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Medical warning about Doctors & Snakebite
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by Phobos on June 4, 2005
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Hi Everyone:
I CANNOT stress the need to have proper bite protocols and Expert contact phone #'s to take with you to the hospital if bitten.
A friend was bitten last evening by his 4ft EDB. When to hospital "A" where he was given 5 vials of Crofab but no more because of the "Liability issues" the hospital/physicians had with the drug. Those Stupid idiots!! If they read the perscribing information they would have known " up to 18 vials have been given with no ill effects. Dr. Sean Bush has given 58 vials to a patient without any problems.
He was transfered to Hospital "B" when they gave an additonal 10 vials but wanted to do a Faciotomy. The patient declined and the physician was told that was not a "good idea:" and was not thought to be a clinially required proceedure. Get this: They are worried about swelling,so what do they do? They wrap the arm tightly with a bandage to keep the pressure high and keep all the venom in the patients arm. They don't even make the swelling progression on the arm to see if the A/V is being effective.
Again WE were able to inform the doctors and get them intouch with a local doctor who is experienced with snakebite and he seem to be doing well at the moment.
IF you only do one thing, take the names & phone numbers of snakebite experts with you to the hospital, this could be the single most important tool besides Antivenom to save your life.
Some People I would want on the phone to direct the physicians who to treat a snakebite, not in any particular order:
The nice people at Miami Dade Venom 1
Chris Harper
Arizona Poison Control
These people treat many bites per year and will help you get the medical care required, that's their job and we thank them for the great job they do! If you need them put them to work!
If all else fails you can contact me, If I don't know, I know who to ask.
Al Coritz
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RE: Medical warning about Doctors & Snakebite
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by Rabies on June 4, 2005
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I'm also willing to give any advice,if rquired. I'm also willing to share my bite protocols if any body has difficulties.
John
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RE: Medical warning about Doctors & Snakebite
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by Mustangrde1 on June 4, 2005
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Al. How is he doing i was on with Person J when he got the call last night from you and this morning. were you able to get ahold of Ernie and Al and Sean. If you need i dug up the direct contact numbers and ill give them to you through person J. hOPE ALL IS WELL
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RE: Medical warning about Doctors & Snakebite
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by Buzztail1 on June 4, 2005
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Al,
Do I know the person bitten?
Could you let me know via email.
I believe you can trust my discretion.
Karl
Scott,
Could you send me the numbers for my protocols.
Buzztail1@hotmail.com
Thanks,
Karl
PS This keeps moving to be the first post. I do not know how to prevent this from happening. Sorry, I am not trying to hijack this thread. KHB
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RE: Medical warning about Doctors & Snakebite
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by Phobos on June 4, 2005
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Hi:
I talked to the patient about an our ago (~5:00 est)and was doing okay. I am leaving for Israel tonight otherwise I would have gone to the Medical Center where he is now. His clotting factors were within the normal range and just finished 2 more vials of Cro-fab. They got hold of the Physician who Matt Harris and I recomended, who is the NEAVB's Medical Director. He is experienced in Snakebites and is talking to the Attending where the patient is being treated. He directed the local physician what he has to do and seems to be following protocol now, I am relieved that he is getting the proper treatment.
He has vessicals of various size on his index finger and the color is getting darker, not surprising. He was hit with one fang near the first knuckle. No, I did not ask how it happened, maybe after he is well. I'm expecting he will have some deficit on that digit and hoping that will be all. The swelling is up to his shoulder. This will all take time to subside, a few months at least.
The nurses told me that there were also talking to Jim Harrison, at KRZ for support. Thanks Jim! This was the only smart things they seemed to do!
Best,
Al
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RE: Medical warning about Doctors & Snakebite
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by Cro on June 4, 2005
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Al is so right about this! If you are bitten and go to a hospital, you will likely be treated by some intern who has never treated a snake bite in his life! He will be trying to remember what he learned back in med school. It is extremly important to have proper bite protocols and Expert contact phone #'s to take with you to the hospital if bitten! It could very well save your life! The average doctor treats maybee one or two snake bites in their life. Don't count on these people to help you! Insist that thay contact the persons who have the experience in treating snake bites!
Here at SHHS, we need to make that contact info readily available to members, so they can print it out and keep it in their wallet.
Best of luck for a speedy recovery to whoever it was that was bitten.
And Al, hope you have a safe and fun trip to Israel. Take lots of photos for us to see in the future!
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Medical warning about Doctors & Snakebite
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by elapidking81 on June 4, 2005
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Al,
I hope that your friend is doing well, and I will continue to pray for him.
If you or somebody could help me in getting a bite protocol for Bothrops schlegelii, and also some of those numbers of the expert contact. I havent acuired the snake yet but hope to very soon. If some of that info is something you dont want to post you cant e-mail it to me also. Also Al if you can please get with me on the NEAVB I would like to help in any way just e-mail me your number and when your getting back and I'll give you a call on this matter.
thank you,
Shane Kissinger
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EDB Snakebite
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by Chris_Harper on June 5, 2005
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I spoke with the bitee's mother and father yesterday morning. I also called Al Cruz and got him to call the nurse's desk directly for consultation, (especially since the doctors have never heard of me.) More antivenom sooner would've been more appropriate. From what I've heard from the parents and from speaking to the victim personally, I would classify it as a moderate envenomation.
I think our boy will have at least a 98%-99% recovery. The finger is a wait and see issue.
~Chris Harper
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RE: Medical warning about Doctors & Snakebite
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by Phobos on June 5, 2005
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Geeetings from Israel:
The protocols I use as a template are on this website. The medical advice is sound but they need to be adapted to your situation.
http://www-surgery.ucsd.edu/ent/DAVIDSON/Snake/proinde.htm
Hope to be sending pics of some nice herps by weeks end.
Cheers!
Al
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