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Update on Michael Jolliff's Snake Bite
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by Dadee on October 2, 2005
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Has anyone heard from Mike? I've seen posts on KS for him, but it's not known if it's by him. It's been more than 15 days since his bite on Sept. 15th. If anyone knows of his condition, please share.
Thanks,
Matt
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RE: Update on Michael Jolliff's Snake Bite
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by Dadee on October 2, 2005
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Here's the response I got back from Mike on his condition and recovery:
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I'll try to get some updated pix soon. Healing much faster than I thought but I really didn't know what to expect. MY lungs & hand are prob. around 85 - 90% already. My lungs were in pretty bad shape as they had collapsed. My asthma & an allergic reaction to the pain meds didn't help either. I believe it was anaphylactic shock that put me down which also affected my breathing. The incision made in my hand is the only thing that causes me concern as in long term concern. There was no real muscle, nerve, or tissue damage but the incision could get infected. I believe it did aid in the drainage of my arm & hand. I was told the reason for the incision was to check for pockets of venom, aid in drainage, & check compartment pressure in the hand as the instruments are not always accurate when digits & hands are concerned. My friend got bit in the 80's by a WDB & got gange green (?spelling?) 3 weeks after the bite & it also appeared to be healing fine. Hoping for the best but it was just a horrible physical reaction to a mild bite by a 3' yearling. I did read that someone did a study on WDBs from the same locale & found neonates venom to be 6.5 times more toxic than adults. The finger (on the opposite hand) I was grazed on almost three years ago has went back to its normal size & quite itching. The article on Anaphylactic shock on the SHHS home page is what prompted me to get the epi-pens in the first place. Myself & my doctors believed this is what prob. saved me.......
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Our best hopes were sent back to him.
Matt
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RE: Update on Michael Jolliff's Snake Bite
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by Phobos on October 2, 2005
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Hi,
Glad to hear Mike is doing very well. He certainly had a most unusual Western Diamondback Rattlesnake bite, few local affects and severe systemic effects.
Collapsed lungs are not your normal life-threatening symptoms following a bite by this species. Gennaro published some data on a venom fraction (Cottonmouth)that caused the lungs of frogs to collapsed. It seems strange to me that a Western Diamondback would have this or a like component in their venom. I suggest, that your lung collapse was brought on by a severe asthma attack secondary to snake venom allergy.
That is quite a line of crap, they handed you Mike. When did the doctor do his training in the dark ages? Certainly one hour after the bite, all the venom has been the absorbed into the surrounding tissues. What did he think he was going to find in their? Something like a pocket of trapped motor oil? That is a very lame explanation for cutting somebody's hand open.
Mike, I hope you are seeing a hand surgeon, who is keeping tabs on your healing progress. I am really sort of surprised. They did not try to cover this defect with a skin graft, which of course would shorten the healing time. Since you're stuck with an open wound. Just keep your eyes on a to make sure it stays clean.
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RE: Update on Michael Jolliff's Snake Bite
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by Dadee on October 3, 2005
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Al,
I replied back to Mike to say, I thought that Dr. Bush was recommending against fasciotomies at all costs and only resort to it in the most extreme circumstances?.
At any rate, the fact that Mike only had a mild envenomation is wild, for the circumstances, but the flip side of his allergic reaction is definitely something that this site should take to heart. He does mention, the use of an epi-pen that he read here, perhaps staved off a good percentage of what "could have" happened.
I really was surprised to hear that this er team had sliced his hand open. His locale however, probably is the real reason behind this. If the medical community as a whole is going to get the word out, fasciotomies do more harm than good, they need to use all of their resources to reach the remote areas where "old guys" are congregated in pockets.
Best of luck Mike,
Matt
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RE: Update on Michael Jolliff's Snake Bite
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by Rabies on October 3, 2005
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It would be interesting to know if he had a true reaction to the bite. From what little bits have been posted he collapsed and possibly fitted after giving himself an epi-pen. This could of been due to an adrenalin overdose! When questioning fellow venomous keepers there aren't many who can tell the difference from an allergic reaction and a life threateng reaction. Adrenalin counter acts the affects histamine has on the blood vessels, heart and the smooth muscle in the airways and should only be given when this is happening, a rash, hives itching is not life threatening but should be documented and monitored for signs of progression towards the above. A anti histamine would help reduce the discomfort of the latter. Some peole collapse/faint imediatley after a bite, this at times can be a normal "vaso syncope" due the the shock of what's just happened or it could be a direct action from the venom, ie allergy or the venom itself causing the release of histamine and bradykinin etc Its down to the individuals to learn the differences and to teach their loved ones as well. It appears to me that the miss guided use of epipens is just as high as fasciotomy's in the US.
This is not inteneded to be a confrontation but could make for an interesting discusion.
Regards
John
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