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2 Questions -materials for hides +milkingrearfang
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by keyz on October 17, 2005
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Hi all I have two q's 1. I have been constucting some hides for my snakes lately and have found that they seem to prefer slate as a hide material I have been using silicon to bond the sides of the hides but I am worried about bonding materials so lately I have been using the weight of the top slate to "hold" them but as they get bigger well you can imagine! so can anyone suggest a not toxic bonding agent. And now Q2 How are most rear fanged snakes milked,as I am aware alot of them must chew slightly to get there fangs into play, reason is that I have seen how some sea snake venom is extracted with almost a pippete/syringe like device placed over each "tiny" fang, individually. almost the same with spider venom, but can most rear fanged snakes be capable or willing to chew on a beaker. Boomslangs must have a venom extraction technique, does it apply "in principal" to other rear fanged snakes I.e. (FWC),as I have experience of there aggresion and would assume they will readily bite anything possible, but A Hognoses jaw structure is different and most seem reluctant to truly bite! only my experiences though! cheers for taking the time to read this regards. KEYZ;)
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RE: 2 Questions -materials for hides +milkingrearf
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by tj on October 17, 2005
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Boomslangs fangs are probably easier to work with as they are quite large for a rear-fang. As far as aggression goes, that's the first I've heard.
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RE: 2 Questions -materials for hides +milkingrearf
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by Cro on October 17, 2005
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Kieron: As far as a non toxic bonding agent for the slate rocks, the silicone that you are using is one of the best. I like 100% silicon RTV. Just make sure it is fully cured and the ascetic acid fumes it gives of as it cures are cleared before you put the reptiles back in the cage. Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: 2 Questions -materials for hides +milkingrearf
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by Frawgg on October 17, 2005
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I haven't had any sucess with silicone bonding to slate/stone. Use mortar instead. Hardware stores sell caulk tube type mortar that come in various shades of color & have far superior bonding properties than silicone. The silicone just simply doesn't bond as well as mortar...to rock, that is.
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RE: 2 Questions -materials for hides +milkingrearf
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by Cro on October 17, 2005
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Michael: I find it really surprising that the silicone you used did not bond to rock.
I wonder if it was 100% Silicone RTV ( which is about $6.00 a tube ), or a cheaper silicone based caulk?
I have been using Dow Corning ( the best if you can find it ), and GE 100% Silicone, for over 35 years, and it is a great product. Just look for the most expensive product at Lowes or Home Depot, as it is probably the 100 % stuff. The colored products are in the paint department, and the clear is in the tile department where it is sold along with the Corning glass ``bricks.``
It is what is used to glue the glass together in aquariums. I have used the clear product to construct custom aquariums of up to 1000 gallons, which are made with 3/4 inch glass.
I have used it to glue hundreds of pounds of slate to reptile exhibits, and never had a problem with it.
As far as mortar mix, well, that works well also, but it is heavy, and for something like a hide box made of slate that will be taken in and out of the cage frequently, I still think using good quality silicone adhesive is a better way to go.
JohnZ
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RE: 2 Questions -materials for hides +milkingrearf
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by Frawgg on October 19, 2005
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Hey J.Z., Its been several years since I have done any terrarium projects & I honestly don't know what type of silicone I used. All I know it was a tube that I put in a caulk gun. They may have indeed manufactured new & improved silicone...apparently you know more about that than I. However, being employed in the construction industry, this phrase is repeated consistently: "Use the right tool for the job." Being an electrician, sometimes "we" have to go through several crafts/trades handi-work (sheetrock, masonry, framing, roofing, etc..) to get to our wires that we need to work on. So electricians have a generalized knowledge of most trades on any given job site. That said, mortar will have a far superior bond to rock/ brick/ slate than silicone. The amount of mortar being used for terrarium projects are so small that weight issues are negligable.
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RE: 2 Questions -materials for hides +milkingrearf
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by Cro on October 19, 2005
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Hey M.M.
I can sure appreciate using the right tool for the right job.
I have been involved for years in construction and real estate also, and I know there are superior products and lousy ones.
I would challenge you though to try the 100% silicone adhesive from Dow and compare it to mortar. Just because you bought a cheap adhesive in the past is not a reason to criticise the good stuff. I think you will find the 100% silicone holds better on something like a slate hide that will be removed from the cage often, than the holding power of mortar. I still think you bought a crappy silicone caulk and had bad results from it. I have done the same, and learned to use the good stuff.
If you are constructing backgrounds for cages, that is a different matter. I have used mortar on many, many exhibits, and it is great for permanant backgrounds.
However, the original question from Keys was about hides, which implies a light weight contraption that fits into a cage the snake hides in, which can be removed for caged cleaning. It is not about background construction of the cage. A hide can be as simple as a cardboard box, or a toilet paper tube, or a piece of cork bark, or pieces of slate glued together. It must be cleanable, and light weight, and secure for the snake.
I am willing to bet you a Large Mellow Mushroom Special Pizza, ( best pizza in GA, LOL ) verses the best Pizza in your area, that in making a removable snake hide from slate, that silicone will hold better than mortar in repeated use. We are not talking cage backgrounds here, we are talking removable hides made of slate. We can let Keyz try both and see which he thinks is best. But he has to use the 100% Silicone Dow Corning product I suggested and his local mortar that you suggested.
Looking forward to winning a free Mellow Mushroom Pizza. Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: 2 Questions -materials for hides +milkingrearf
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by keyz on October 21, 2005
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Well guys looks like its on!lol;) can you both post your appropriate mortar mixes type and amounts and I see that Dow Corning seem to do most silicon applications, is it best to opt for a clear aquarium sealant or specifically dow corning, explain how you want to run this highly scientific test, there are currently a couple of larger snakes that require a large hide and one high yellow tiger kingsnake talk about designer breeding! anyway these would all benefit from new larger hides one Royal is about 3.5 feet long and built like a brick **** house and tests everything new in his viv, so please post your specific instructions. I will photograph all stages of construction and actually take them out up to 3 times a week so any weakneses will be tested but the hide material must be smooth surfaced slate also pictures of the hides in situ' will be taken and hopefully soon I will be able to upload Pics, if not I will even post them! lets get it ON. Kieron.
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RE: 2 Questions -materials for hides +milkingrearf
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by Cro on October 21, 2005
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Kieron: If you are willing to build two similar hides, one using Silicone RTV, and one the strongest mortar you can find, that would be a great contest.
I look forward to the results.
My only requirement is that you use 100 % Silicone RTV, clear or black, and let it cure as per the directions before use. Not the cheap stuff that says silicone which is window caulk, but the good stuff that costs like twice as much, in the tile department with the Corning Glass Bricks, or the Paint Department, that says ``RTV`` 100 % Silicone.
Dow Corning would be best, but GE would be an acceptable second choise.
And the mortar you choose should be the strongest you can find, and be fully cured as per the instructions on the bag.
Design the hides any way you want as far as size and weight. And test them for a few months and see which holds together, cleans up best, and works best. If the mortar holds up better, well, I will be surprised, but you never know. Maybee some of the new mortars work better than the ones I have used in the past. I am still betting on the RTV !
There is a Mellow Mushroom Large House Special Pizza reserved for you anytime you visit Georgia, just for making the effort, no matter which hide comes out best in the contest.
If Michael decides to take up the challenge, I look forward to seeing what the best Pizza in Texas is!
Best Regards
JohnZ
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